Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

they should have adopted Salvini's tactic: stop boats like the Aquarius to run their ferry service, pay for the running cost of reception centres where people can apply in an orderly manner and children continue with their education. Remember the Vietnamese boat people? About a million Vietnamese refugees were successfully resettled by UNHCR 40 years ago. The vast majority did not pay any money, they could apply even without leaving their homes under the family reunion system.

I agree, the first act should be to scuttle The Aquarius because it is working in the interests of the people trafficking gangs. This is causing misery for the people on board and the countries where it docks.

It would be better to pay for the set up and running of safe centres in the countries of origin. People can then be filtered and those needing to get out for the correct reasons can do so quickly and safely.

The EU’s hogwash solution to the crisis is the very embodiment of all that is wrong with it.

 

[Woosh]

Ashcroft says: “I believe that Malta represents the best destination for ambitious UK firms that must have a post-Brexit presence in the European Union.”
So typical of the tories millionaires. Where in the world this country will look to after brexit? Malta of all places. Talking about ulterior motives when they donate to the brexit campaign.

honestly, you can't make this up.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/29/lord-ashcroft-praises-malta-as-base-for-uk-business-during-brexit

 

[Woosh]

TM's brexit strategy is becoming clear: we want participation into the Single Market for goods, cooperation on defense and security and little else. The EU sees it as 'cherry picking'.
I reckon this time the EU will come to some accommodation in return for TM accepting some jurisdiction from the ECJ.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the BBC:

Leaders said that new migrant centres could be set up in EU countries on a "voluntary" basis.
These centres would process migrants to determine which are genuine refugees and which are "irregular migrants, who will be returned", the text of their agreement says.
The joint communique also speaks of restricting the movement of asylum seekers between EU states.
"After this European summit, Europe is more responsible and offers more solidarity," said Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte. "Today Italy is no longer alone."
German Chancellor Angela Merkel came into the summit needing an EU-wide agreement on dealing with asylum seekers to avert a political crisis at home that could bring down her government.
It is unclear whether the measures agreed will be enough, and speaking to reporters at 05:00 local time (03:00 GMT), she acknowledged the EU still had "a lot of work to do to bridge the different views".

Ha ha ha. That won’t happen. Next idea please because this one isn’t even a sticking plaster on a gaping wound.

It might be worth asking what caused the "Gaping Wound" and stopped whoever keeps poking it?

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree, the first act should be to scuttle The Aquarius because it is working in the interests of the people trafficking gangs. This is causing misery for the people on board and the countries where it docks.

It would be better to pay for the set up and running of safe centres in the countries of origin. People can then be filtered and those needing to get out for the correct reasons can do so quickly and safely.

The EU’s hogwash solution to the crisis is the very embodiment of all that is wrong with it.

And yours is even worse!
How are you going to set up safe centres in hostile countries where we are not wanted? and protect the people there?
The UN for instance has a terrible record when it tried to do that

This gives the lie to your idea
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/30/there-are-no-real-safe-zones-and-there-never-have-been-syria-iraq-bosnia-rwanda/

I enjoyed your rants, but then I always do, being a bit of a fan of fiction.

 

[oldgroaner]

TM's brexit strategy is becoming clear: we want participation into the Single Market for goods, cooperation on defense and security and little else. The EU sees it as 'cherry picking'.
I reckon this time the EU will come to some accommodation in return for TM accepting some jurisdiction from the ECJ.

They will tell her what she is going to get

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Guardian
"
North Korea still secretly enriching uranium, say US officials
Report cites ‘unequivocal evidence they are trying to deceive the US’ in blow to Donald Trump
NBC News quoted more than a dozen US officials familiar with the intelligence assessments. Coming soon after satellite images showed rapid improvements being made to a North Korean nuclear research facility at Yongbyon, the developments will make it harder for Trump to claim that his summit with Kim Jong-un in Singapore this month was a success.

Neither of the concessions the US president claimed Kim had delivered – the destruction of a missile engine testing site, and the repatriation of the remains of US soldiers killed in the Korean war – has materialised so far."

It did no good and I never thought it would (From the song right said Fred)

 

[oyster]

From the Guardian
"
North Korea still secretly enriching uranium, say US officials
Report cites ‘unequivocal evidence they are trying to deceive the US’ in blow to Donald Trump
NBC News quoted more than a dozen US officials familiar with the intelligence assessments. Coming soon after satellite images showed rapid improvements being made to a North Korean nuclear research facility at Yongbyon, the developments will make it harder for Trump to claim that his summit with Kim Jong-un in Singapore this month was a success.

Neither of the concessions the US president claimed Kim had delivered – the destruction of a missile engine testing site, and the repatriation of the remains of US soldiers killed in the Korean war – has materialised so far."

It did no good and I never thought it would (From the song right said Fred)

And I think it's gonna be a long long time

 

[Zlatan]

No matter of outcome of Trump's meeting it was a praiseworthy and worthwhile action on Trump's admin part.
Gloating and told you so comments are a little beneath you OG.

 

[oyster]

No matter of outcome of Trump's meeting it was a praiseworthy and worthwhile action on Trump's admin part.
Gloating and told you so comments are a little beneath you OG.

I completely disagree. Throughout the driving force has appeared to be vanity.

Going through a process like this which then falls apart due to issues which were predictable can be seriously negative. A second bite at the denuclearisation cherry might very well prove extremely elusive. (And not only because vanity would get in the way of any hint of admitting "we got it wrong first time".)

 

[Danidl]

I completely disagree. Throughout the driving force has appeared to be vanity.

Going through a process like this which then falls apart due to issues which were predictable can be seriously negative. A second bite at the denuclearisation cherry might very well prove extremely elusive. (And not only because vanity would get in the way of any hint of admitting "we got it wrong first time".)

Possibly most politicians have a problem in the vanity department. I can agree with the problems you are suggesting will lie ahead.
However the question is was it a risk worth taking? Is it better to have dialogue than confrontation?.. Would a more analytical politician have worried through all the likely and unlikely scenarios?

 

[Woosh]

And I think it's gonna be a long long time

these things take time, Donald Trump can't change that.
the USA has used economic sanctions many times before, a collective punishment against civilians to put pressure on the North Koreans.

 

[oldgroaner]

No matter of outcome of Trump's meeting it was a praiseworthy and worthwhile action on Trump's admin part.
Gloating and told you so comments are a little beneath you OG.

Oh do stop for a moment trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Trump is quite simply nothing more than a a narcissist suffering from dementia.

Only a complete idiot would attempt to reason with the even bigger fool in North Korea, and not expect to be taken for a ride.
This is the THIRD time North Korea have done this.

Why is it praiseworthy that the man is so arrogant he thinks he has the power to literally make a Homicidal Maniac bow to his will?

He is a bigger danger than "Rocket Man" as his Whiz bangs are far more dangerous, and under the control of an even bigger fool who is easily conned.

 

[Woosh]

They will tell her what she is going to get

they have already told her she can get one of the ready made set menus. TM reckons she can get the same advantages as a member of EFTA but with reduced freedom of movement, UK collects and keeps the import duty unless the goods are resold to the EU, in which case, the UK will hand over the duty.

I'd say her chances are fair but it will take time.

 

[oldgroaner]

they have already told her she can get one of the ready made set menus. TM reckons she can get the same advantages as a member of EFTA but with reduced freedom of movement, UK collects and keeps the import duty unless the goods are resold to the EU, in which case, the UK will hand over the duty.

I'd say her chances are fair but it will take time.

And if she is succesful?

We will have achieved throwing away the best possible deal we could ever get for something infinitely less attractive and with immense risk attached.

This isn't the state of the UK
It is the state of Insanity, where the lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[oldgroaner]

For those with the patience to read a rather long speech...
https://policyscotland.gla.ac.uk/blog-sir-ivan-rogers-speech-text-in-full/

A very detailes analysis.
But then Brexiters have "had enough of experts"

 

[Woosh]

And if she is succesful?

We will have achieved throwing away the best possible deal we could ever get for something infinitely less attractive and with immense risk attached.

This isn't the state of the UK
It is the state of Insanity, where the lunatics are running the asylum.

if she is successful, the economy won't suffer much and may even do better in the long term.

 

[oyster]

they have already told her she can get one of the ready made set menus. TM reckons she can get the same advantages as a member of EFTA but with reduced freedom of movement, UK collects and keeps the import duty unless the goods are resold to the EU, in which case, the UK will hand over the duty.

I'd say her chances are fair but it will take time.

Just as at the local takeaway - set menus are designed to make it look like you are getting a wonderful deal but are usually a selection of the least expensive dishes for the place to make and supply. You often get a small bag of prawn crackers when if you ordered them on their own, you get a sackful.

And can I see difficulties if the EU changes tariffs and taxes - and we have to follow what they have decided to do. With effectively zero influence on the decisions.

 

[oldgroaner]

if she is successful, the economy won't suffer much and may even do better in the long term.

Perhaps you would care to explain how it will do better in the long term?
There seems precious little evidence to support that outcome.

 

[Woosh]

Perhaps you would care to explain how it will do better in the long term?
There seems precious little evidence to support that outcome.

Guy Verhofstadt explains it better than me. Ukraine has an association framework with the UK. That is the starting point. GV reckons it will take 10 years to work out what it is going to be. Roughly speaking, we want participation in the SM like EFTA members - outside the customs union so we must have a mechanism to allow goods to circulate freely across the EU border, like Switzerland.
Let's say TM somehow succeeds.
There will much less incentive for foreign companies to up stick and go.
Our quality as a pragmatic people when it comes to trade, our well understood and transparent legal system will entice more foreign companies to invest after that deal is achieved.