Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Yes, that's exactly the process along with examination of incoming frequency of time carrier signal.
All satellites are geo stationary so as unit picks each one up it calculates distance from it and when enough have been found gives a circle of overlapping signals, in which it knows unit is in. A position in space. To give us that position it must approximate to our lines of lat/long and then give an elevation.
Not sure protocols are available for units to send raw (accurate) time data. It has to display its position in a language we understand....hence the problem.
My only thoughts are that I can't see how Galileo can be so much more accurate when limiting factors are not the units but the system inherent in our navigation system.But, I know nothing about Galileo...

The satellites are not geo stationary.hence the requirement for a constellation of upwards of 24. They are much closer to earth than that. If your GPS unit , such as my Tom Tom has a satellite view, it indicates which satellites are above the horizon at any instant. You will readily see a variation over a period of hours. Without checking, an orbital period of 12hours comes to mind
The quality of the clocks installed on each satellite are the fundemental timing error. There Therewill have been advances in the precision of theses atomic clocks since the inception of the original US system. There are other tricks up the sleeve of the designers, including a mode based on phase detection of the carrier between the different radio channels. .. in essence a reworking of the old Loran C radio beacon system, but with much higher frequencies, and consequently higher spatial resolution.

 

[Danidl]

What gibberish you talk, both world wars happened because of tensions in the main part of Europe, with the UK being in support of another country being annexed, by a more powerful European country,

We backed other countries in Europe both times, and have been backing those countries since the Second World War, the Cold War, so much for the UK being unreliable, if excluding us from Galileo, excludes us from doing that a third time, how is that to the benefit of Europe, or any country in Europe,
Enemy of Europe, your having a laugh, are you saying that the countries in the EU don’t want our troops in the states bordering Russia, I am still waiting for the announcement from those states, you don’t have enemy troops in you country, it’s called an invasion if you do,

I think it’s a mistake to leave, but let’s not get carried away with things, it only takes a rabble rousing politician from either side to believe the sort of gibberish you write, using terms like enemy and unreliable to further their own aims,

If the EU was formed to bring continued peace to Europe, then surely its the EU’s duty to work with the UK to continue that mission, and make the best of things, to do otherwise is a dereliction of that duty, and risks the safety of Europe,
Whilst I am a remainer, that doesn’t mean that I am not British and proud of my country, but I refuse to fall for the, everything the EU does is correct and for the benefit of Europe, or that we are unreliable or an enemy, that seems to me to be playground talk, nor do I think leaving is going well, it’s not, and it will probably get worse.

Ian I can agree with everything you have written here, .. with the exception that I am not British. If and when the UK does leave the remaining 27 will make whatever adjustments as are feasible to minimise the friction. The EUs problem at present is that the UK does not know it's own mind so the EU cannot minimise any UK created friction. The backtracking on the NI backstop guarantees is symptomatic.
Early on in the process, the EU identified all those institutions which would be affected, a very long list, and published it. This would normally be called a scoping excercise. The UK government publicly ignored it ..what they were doing in private is uncertain and certainly the UK newspapers, who should be holding the UK government to account, ignored it. Now it appears that these newspapers have finally got around to skim reading it.

 

[Zlatan]

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Worth reading.

 

[flecc]

Ian I can agree with everything you have written here, .. with the exception that I am not British.

An aside. No-one is British, there is no such nationality despite the government's attempts to classify those immigrants adopting nationality as British citizens.

England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are nations so one can have those nationalities. Britain is not a nation, it is a federation of England and Wales, just as Great Britain is not a nation but a federation of England, Wales and Scotland, and the UK is a federation of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Of course if most of us in the UK were British as so many seem to think, we would also be Great British and UKean by theirs and the government's logic. Together with our true nationalities that would give the English, Welsh and Scots quadruple nationality. Such is the mess our ridiculous identities growth has caused.
.

 

[flecc]

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Worth reading.

Precisely, accuracy of 5 to10 metres. That's not remotely good enough for a huge number of applications and certainly not good enough to guide cars. All it does is give a rough position, good enough for speed over ground measurement and other such inexacting applications, but hardly precise enough for widespread applications where it could be much more useful.

Once people and business have experienced new product that's useful for some things, they then demand better for greater usefulness and application.

Hence Galileo.

No doubt the USA and its Russian Glasnost partner will both play catchup and maybe overtake, but it will be expensive since that means entirely replacing what they have. Little wonder they are not happy.
.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Ian I can agree with everything you have written here, .. with the exception that I am not British. If and when the UK does leave the remaining 27 will make whatever adjustments as are feasible to minimise the friction. The EUs problem at present is that the UK does not know it's own mind so the EU cannot minimise any UK created friction. The backtracking on the NI backstop guarantees is symptomatic.
Early on in the process, the EU identified all those institutions which would be affected, a very long list, and published it. This would normally be called a scoping excercise. The UK government publicly ignored it ..what they were doing in private is uncertain and certainly the UK newspapers, who should be holding the UK government to account, ignored it. Now it appears that these newspapers have finally got around to skim reading it.

Let’s face it our government is stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to please both sides being impossible, that is what is undermining the process, it’s been two years of petty bickering from both sides,
which is why they should pick one side or the other and live with the consequences, other than that it needs the EU to agree a deal midway between Brexit and remain, that the government can sell to the majority,

why should the EU do that, well it fixes the problem and continues the security of Europe, and it is their problem as well, the European countries rely on us buying from them, maybe not as much as we rely on them to buy our goods, but enough for it to be unthinkable, what we don’t know is how far the EU are prepared to move, if it’s as some say not at all, then we are back to remaining in, or leaving despite the cost. and everyone feels the pain, us far more than the EU, but Ireland, France and Germany certainly,

I don’t think the EEA option is enough, though you could argue that us being in it would change the dynamics so that it becomes less subordinate to the main EU countries, or you could also argue that any EEA plus arrangement would lead to other EEA members wanting the same,

It’s not the place I want us to be in, or think it we should be in, in many ways the divisions are generated to sell media space, finding a working solution is hugely important, sniping on the sidelines isn’t, maybe instead of stating whether we are for or against, we should move onto what we are prepared to accept giving some credence to the other side.

 

[Danidl]

An aside. No-one is British, there is no such nationality despite the government's attempts to classify those immigrants adopting nationality as British citizens.

England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are nations so one can have those nationalities. Britain is not a nation, it is a federation of England and Wales, just as Great Britain is not a nation but a federation of England, Wales and Scotland, and the UK is a federation of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Of course if most of us in the UK were British as so many seem to think, we would also be Great British and UKean by theirs and the government's logic. Together with our true nationalities that would give the English, Welsh and Scots quadruple nationality. Such is the mess our ridiculous identities growth has caused.
.

.. well then I certainly am not British!!!!

 

[ianboydsnr]

An aside. No-one is British, there is no such nationality despite the government's attempts to classify those immigrants adopting nationality as British citizens.

England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are nations so one can have those nationalities. Britain is not a nation, it is a federation of England and Wales, just as Great Britain is not a nation but a federation of England, Wales and Scotland, and the UK is a federation of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Of course if most of us in the UK were British as so many seem to think, we would also be Great British and UKean by theirs and the government's logic. Together with our true nationalities that would give the English, Welsh and Scots quadruple nationality. Such is the mess our ridiculous identities growth has caused.
.

I don’t really see things like that,
I am Ian a man, a husband, a father an uncle a family man, I am from Cockermouth, a Cumbrian, English, British, a United Kingdom citizen, European and an earthling, member of our solar system and galaxy if we manage to get as far as that,
None of them are mutually exclusive.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Precisely, accuracy of 5 to10 metres. That's not remotely good enough for a huge number of applications and certainly not good enough to guide cars. All it does is give a rough position, good enough for speed over ground measurement and other such inexacting applications, but hardly precise enough for widespread applications where it could be much more useful.

Once people and business have experienced new product that's useful for some things, they then demand better for greater usefulness and application.

Hence Galileo.

No doubt the USA and its Russian Glasnost partner will both play catchup and maybe overtake, but it will be expensive since that means entirely replacing what they have. Little wonder they are not happy.
.

They replace them anyway 10 years is a good life for a satellite,

The secure system is down to inches, on the American system, you have to pay for that though 5 to 10 meters is useless for surveyors.

 

[Woosh]

Let’s face it our government is stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to please both sides being impossible, that is what is undermining the process, it’s been two years of petty bickering from both sides,
which is why they should pick one side or the other and live with the consequences, other than that it needs the EU to agree a deal midway between Brexit and remain, that the government can sell to the majority,

the EU would agree to a number of existing solutions, from Turkey to Norway,but not to the middle of the Atlantic (no deal, run away without paying the bar bill).
It's the tories who cannot agree between themselves and in addition, stop Parliament to have a role.
Clearly, the tories are a danger to this country.

 

[Danidl]

Let’s face it our government is stuck between a rock and a hard place, trying to please both sides being impossible, that is what is undermining the process, it’s been two years of petty bickering from both sides,
which is why they should pick one side or the other and live with the consequences, other than that it needs the EU to agree a deal midway between Brexit and remain, that the government can sell to the majority,

why should the EU do that, well it fixes the problem and continues the security of Europe, and it is their problem as well, the European countries rely on us buying from them, maybe not as much as we rely on them to buy our goods, but enough for it to be unthinkable, what we don’t know is how far the EU are prepared to move, if it’s as some say not at all, then we are back to remaining in, or leaving despite the cost. and everyone feels the pain, us far more than the EU, but Ireland, France and Germany certainly,

I don’t think the EEA option is enough, though you could argue that us being in it would change the dynamics so that it becomes less subordinate to the main EU countries, or you could also argue that any EEA plus arrangement would lead to other EEA members wanting the same,

It’s not the place I want us to be in, or think it we should be in, in many ways the divisions are generated to sell media space, finding a working solution is hugely important, sniping on the sidelines isn’t, maybe instead of stating whether we are for or against, we should move onto what we are prepared to accept giving some credence to the other side.

In terms of shared pain and economic cost of leaving . I would suggest that the region's most adversely affected will be in order .. .Northern Ireland, RoI , rest of UK, . Holland, There will be minor disruption in France and Germany, little in Spain and Italy and trivial effects in the middle europe states.
The EU has effectively promised to support the RoI and the RoI has promised to help NI as much as it can. But promises are not bankable.
As I have written previously, the NI and RoI have such a common area of integrated economic activity, that any barriers will be costly. Unless one were to live here it would not be obvious, but stuff like cattle, fodder, milk building materials, tradesmen circulate over the border constantly. Housebuilding, home repairs will see NI registered vans everywhere in my border region. Traveling by train from Dublin some weeks ago, a met a young couple who commute from Portadown to the financial centre on Dublin Docklands, every day. The only thing unusual here was the commute was 80 miles.

 

[ianboydsnr]

the EU would agree to a number of existing solutions, from Turkey to Norway,but not to the middle of the Atlantic (no deal, run away without paying the bar bill).
It's the tories who cannot agree between themselves and in addition, stop Parliament to have a role.
Clearly, the tories are a danger to this country.

It’s not just the Tories, Labour are the same they are as divided as the Tories, and it reflects the view of the country, it’s full on polar pettiness from both sides, that makes us weaker.

 

[Woosh]

It’s not just the Tories, Labour are the same they are as divided as the Tories, and it reflects the view of the country, it’s full on polar pettiness from both sides, that makes us weaker.

but Labour does not stop Parliament to have a role in guiding the brexit process.
It's down to a small group of Tories MPs with the backing of the right wing newspapers (DT, DE, Sun) and a small majority of conservative party membership who want a no deal brexit.
If there is another GE, that group of MPs know that they are not going to be able to hold this country to ransom.

 

[Danidl]

I don’t really see things like that,
I am Ian a man, a husband, a father an uncle a family man, I am from Cockermouth, a Cumbrian, English, British, a United Kingdom citizen, European and an earthling, member of our solar system and galaxy if we manage to get as far as that,
None of them are mutually exclusive.

Reminds me of the address I put on my school books when I was 10...

 

[ianboydsnr]

Reminds me of the address I put on my school books when I was 10...

What you are called Ian and live in Cumbria?

 

[ianboydsnr]

but Labour does not stop Parliament to have a role in guiding the brexit process.
It's down to a small group of Tories MPs with the backing of the right wing newspapers (DT, DE, Sun) and a small majority of conservative party membership who want a no deal brexit.
If there is another GE, that group of MPs know that they are not going to be able to hold this country to ransom.

Yes they have, they voted to send A50 if they had refused, then the government would have lost the vote, many Labour Mps voted with the government, it’s not a small number of Tory MP’s it’s a majority of all MP’s that vote things through.

 

[oldgroaner]

I thought the EU had a responsibility to promote peace in Europe, surely that is why it was formed, what was the point of it otherwise, and it’s still it’s job, tnerefor any agreements should bear that in mind.

Difficult to promote peace with people who dumped the EU to protect the offshore bank accounts of the Elite which group incidentally like to wage wars of agression

 

[ianboydsnr]

In terms of shared pain and economic cost of leaving . I would suggest that the region's most adversely affected will be in order .. .Northern Ireland, RoI , rest of UK, . Holland, There will be minor disruption in France and Germany, little in Spain and Italy and trivial effects in the middle europe states.
The EU has effectively promised to support the RoI and the RoI has promised to help NI as much as it can. But promises are not bankable.
As I have written previously, the NI and RoI have such a common area of integrated economic activity, that any barriers will be costly. Unless one were to live here it would not be obvious, but stuff like cattle, fodder, milk building materials, tradesmen circulate over the border constantly. Housebuilding, home repairs will see NI registered vans everywhere in my border region. Traveling by train from Dublin some weeks ago, a met a young couple who commute from Portadown to the financial centre on Dublin Docklands, every day. The only thing unusual here was the commute was 80 miles.

I suspect that if it gets to that, the EU and other EU members states will be claiming that the money pot is empty,

The worst off will be the UK, and the Pound, but the Euro will suffer as well, as will the credit rating of the UK, and those who sell a large proportion of goods to the UK, just my opinion of course.

 

[Woosh]

Yes they have, they voted to send A50 if they had refused, then the government would have lost the vote, many Labour Mps voted with the government, it’s not a small number of Tory MP’s it’s a majority of all MP’s that vote things through.

There is no reason why Labour should not have voted for A50.

Tory hard brexiter MPs use wrecking tactic to stop:

a) any deal that keeps the UK in the or a CU and/or the SM or pay the divorce bill
b) Parliament to have a role in shaping brexit

The sooner we have a new GE, the better really.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Difficult to promote peace with people who dumped the EU to protect the offshore bank accounts of the Elite which group incidentally like to wage wars of agression

That’s just your own bias, and petulance, that adds nothing.