Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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I seem to remember that aircraft are specifically barred from working like that. After all, how can they trust the data other aircraft are sending out?
it's a bit like active RFID as opposed to normal RFID, you can check and verify their position by other sensors like Lidar. Encryption procotol usually makes spoofing unlikely.
 
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Woosh

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"Who's in charge of the Runaway train?"
David Davis at the moment.
He mans the post for the brexiteers.
History will record how a small bunch of financiers ruin this country.
 

oldgroaner

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The Daily Mail this morning
"
Undercover at the world's most secretive and elitist society: Mail reporter infiltrates shadowy Bilderberg conference where West's power brokers set the world to rights - with 'populism in Europe' top of the agenda.

I wonder why they have reported this just now.....it's just a friendly meeting of a small bunch of Altruistic individuals :rolleyes:
 
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Woosh

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It may be a bigger "bunch" that it first seems!
on the brexiteers' side, it's astonishing what £12m from Mr Arron Banks can buy. On the remain side, you have Mr Soros and Amber Rudd's brother Roland Rudd.
This generation will see the rise of PR as the new industry.
 
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oldgroaner

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on the brexiteers' side, it's astonishing what £12m from Mr Arron Banks can buy. On the remain side, you have Mr Soros and Amber Rudd's brother Roland Rudd.
This generation will see the rise of PR as the new industry.
The winner so far appears to be Vladimir Putin, mainly because there isn't any real opposition on our side, just a bunch of clowns.
Whatever he tipped in (with charitable if indirect means, without seeking credit for himself) in support of Brexit, and to embarrass the EU.
Must represent a better return on investment than even the leave Red bus.
 
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oldgroaner

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it's a bit like active RFID as opposed to normal RFID, you can check and verify their position by other sensors like Lidar. Encryption procotol usually makes spoofing unlikely.
This is a bit like the scene where C3PO says to R2D2 as it beeps and burbles at in when they are lost in the desert
"Don't get technical with me!" and walks off in a huff....

My new car has front facing Radar (no idea what kind) a little black block in a gap in the front grille.
On adaptive cruise mode it will track the vehicle in front, keep pace, stop and start and oddly if the car in front turns off to the left, it will brake then too, even though the vehicle is travelling away not towards me.
How odd! and others with different makes that have Radar fitted report similar results.
It will also brake suddenly if something like a crisp packet blows across the road (off the ground) in front of you, still at least one low flying pheasant has been spared the fate of becoming a bonnet mascot.
The auto self parking is something I find so disturbing I tend not to use it.
If the vehicle behind you has parked on the pavement you will too to align with it!
And the Sat Nav.. my goodness! it's the first one I have ever had, and never even wanted, so I decided to give it a try.
Fabulous entertainment if you like travelling down tiny Devon lanes cleaning both wing mirrors at the same time in the vegetation.
Ignoring the multitue of warning beeps from the 14 proximity sensors providing in car entertainment and a spectacular light show on the larger of the two screens (cancelling the navigational map display as it does so)
I don't mind narrow lanes, but imagine some poor soul who hasn't driven the million plus miles I have finding themselves in this situation just after passing their test and having to rely on it?
They must wonder if they will ever get home again!

Then there are the voice messages like "time you took a rest" and "you are running low on fuel, would you like recommendations on a local filling station??"
It's the first car I've had that nags me.

Any more of this and the next one I get I shall simply tell it to make the journey without me and give me a report when it gets back, as I've decided to go on my Ebike instead.
 
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Zlatan

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This is a bit like the scene where C3PO says to R2D2 as it beeps and burbles at in when they are lost in the desert
"Don't get technical with me!" and walks off in a huff....



My new car has front facing Radar (no idea what kind) a little black block in a gap in the front grille.
On adaptive cruise mode it will track the vehicle in front, keep pace, stop and start and oddly if the car in front turns off to the left, it will brake then too, even though the vehicle is travelling away not towards me.
How odd! and others with different makes that have Radar fitted report similar results.
It will also brake suddenly if something like a crisp packet blows across the road (off the ground) in front of you, still at least one low flying pheasant has been spared the fate of becoming a bonnet mascot.
The auto self parking is something I find so disturbing I tend not to use it.
If the vehicle behind you has parked on the pavement you will too to align with it!
And the Sat Nav.. my goodness! it's the first one I have ever had, and never even wanted, so I decided to give it a try.
Fabulous entertainment if you like travelling down tiny Devon lanes cleaning both wing mirrors at the same time in the vegetation.
Ignoring the multitue of warning beeps from the 14 proximity sensors providing in car entertainment and a spectacular light show on the larger of the two screens (cancelling the navigational map display as it does so)
I don't mind narrow lanes, but imagine some poor soul who hasn't driven the million plus miles I have finding themselves in this situation just after passing their test and having to rely on it?
They must wonder if they will ever get home again!

Then there are the voice messages like "time you took a rest" and "you are running low on fuel, would you like recommendations on a local filling station??"
It's the first car I've had that nags me.

Any more of this and the next one I get I shall simply tell it to make the journey without me and give me a report when it gets back, as I've decided to go on my Ebike instead.
I, ve wondered where we now stand with this new technology for such as braking for dogs in road. I was always told don't risk those behind (or yourself) braking for an animal. ie)Check mirror before braking for a stupid mutt... Emergency stopping with a 30 tonne truck behind you is not exactly safest thing to do... If it's person, we'll no choice.. But don't think radar or any current technology can differentiate...
Can you imagine outcry. Car braked to save some mongrel and caused mayhem.. Meanwhile dog runs off????
 

Woosh

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I see a few uses that would pay for driverless car technology at level 4 while waiting for level 5:

1. drive itself to the charging station and come back to the house while you sleep.
2. take over the driving when you are on a motorway so you can have a nap
3. cheap taxi in small villages to take old people to the shops or pubs
 

Zlatan

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I see a few uses that would pay for driverless car technology at level 4 while waiting for level 5:

1. drive itself to the charging station and come back to the house while you sleep.
2. take over the driving when you are on a motorway so you can have a nap
3. cheap taxi in small villages to take old people to the shops or pubs
How many years away from that Woosh?
Still think it's solving a problem that does not exist and creating more in mean time.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/15/taplock_broken_screwdriver/
This is same kind of thinking. We, ve got this new technology let's put it to use.
 
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Woosh

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How many years away from that Woosh?
Still think it's solving a problem that does not exist and creating more in mean time.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/15/taplock_broken_screwdriver/
This is same kind of thinking. We, ve got this new technology let's put it to use.
that's just a common flaw with crowd funding projects. They usually involve small companies with little experience in software design, same with material selection and the design of the physical lock itself. If you take for example a card key hotel door lock, it's not so easy to break in.
 
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flecc

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This is a bit like the scene where C3PO says to R2D2 as it beeps and burbles at in when they are lost in the desert
"Don't get technical with me!" and walks off in a huff....

My new car has front facing Radar (no idea what kind) a little black block in a gap in the front grille.
On adaptive cruise mode it will track the vehicle in front, keep pace, stop and start and oddly if the car in front turns off to the left, it will brake then too, even though the vehicle is travelling away not towards me.
How odd! and others with different makes that have Radar fitted report similar results.
It will also brake suddenly if something like a crisp packet blows across the road (off the ground) in front of you, still at least one low flying pheasant has been spared the fate of becoming a bonnet mascot.
The auto self parking is something I find so disturbing I tend not to use it.
If the vehicle behind you has parked on the pavement you will too to align with it!
And the Sat Nav.. my goodness! it's the first one I have ever had, and never even wanted, so I decided to give it a try.
Fabulous entertainment if you like travelling down tiny Devon lanes cleaning both wing mirrors at the same time in the vegetation.
Ignoring the multitue of warning beeps from the 14 proximity sensors providing in car entertainment and a spectacular light show on the larger of the two screens (cancelling the navigational map display as it does so)
I don't mind narrow lanes, but imagine some poor soul who hasn't driven the million plus miles I have finding themselves in this situation just after passing their test and having to rely on it?
They must wonder if they will ever get home again!

Then there are the voice messages like "time you took a rest" and "you are running low on fuel, would you like recommendations on a local filling station??"
It's the first car I've had that nags me.

Any more of this and the next one I get I shall simply tell it to make the journey without me and give me a report when it gets back, as I've decided to go on my Ebike instead.
Indeed, and why the model I'm buying is one away from the top of the range without most of that useless nonsense. It does still have the pedestrian detection though, so will probably emergency brake for a plastic bag or similar blowing across the road and maybe cause someone to slam into the back of my car.

I wish they'd give up the whole stupid notion of driverless, it will never work everywhere, it can never work everywhere. It will probably only work in a minority of carefully prepared locations, and then only when conditions are right. As Zlatan rightly posted, it's solving a problem that doesn't exist.
.
 
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oyster

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it's a bit like active RFID as opposed to normal RFID, you can check and verify their position by other sensors like Lidar. Encryption procotol usually makes spoofing unlikely.
But whether an intentional spoof or a technical "imperfection", you are still relying on what the other vehicle says. If its own location sensing is wrong, it will feed duff information.

You said: "Each will report its GPS coordinate (in WGS format) when interrogated." Which means that you have to depend on that vehicle's GPS accurately identifying its location. There are so many ways in which that could go wrong ranging from failure to apply a firmware update, through power failure on the vehicle (thank you, BMW, for making that headline news), to malicious manipulation.

On the basis that this is all supposed to fix the problem of identifying vehicles which cannot be sensed by direct line of sight detection, Lidar ain't going to be able to check and verify.

Yes, real RFID could, possibly, respond with some basic information, but as soon as you try to make that any more than a basic static set of data, reliability and trustworthiness come into play.

(Locally a sporty car was recently stopped by the police. The number plate showed it was for an uninsured motorbike. Seems two years ago, the supplying dealer had fitted an incorrect number plate. One digit wrong. Which goes to show that mistakes do happen and we cannot trust others. They could have put the wrong RFID chip in and made the car lie.)
 

oyster

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I see a few uses that would pay for driverless car technology at level 4 while waiting for level 5:

1. drive itself to the charging station and come back to the house while you sleep.
2. take over the driving when you are on a motorway so you can have a nap
3. cheap taxi in small villages to take old people to the shops or pubs
I see only one use - parking. Imagine a huge car park where you can leave your car at the entrance and let it drive itself to an empty bay. And the same in reverse to pick it up. A tightly controlled and limited zone. Finite, slow, predictable. Even then I can imagine some tea-leaf being injured when they try to run away from a car they have just broken into.

Any less restricted area really does need the full monty to be safe. You know, completely unexpected things do happen - like earthquakes, sinkholes, lamposts and trees falling down. You simply cannot go forward with a half-baked device that can handle the 50, 70, even 99%, of predictable events but be utterly confused by others. They need full ability to handle even rare situations.
 
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Danidl

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I see a few uses that would pay for driverless car technology at level 4 while waiting for level 5:

1. drive itself to the charging station and come back to the house while you sleep.
2. take over the driving when you are on a motorway so you can have a nap
3. cheap taxi in small villages to take old people to the shops or pubs
The old horse and trap used to do all these, and still do in some locations. ..parti particularly 3 above..
 
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Danidl

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I see only one use - parking. Imagine a huge car park where you can leave your car at the entrance and let it drive itself to an empty bay. And the same in reverse to pick it up. A tightly controlled and limited zone. Finite, slow, predictable. Even then I can imagine some tea-leaf being injured when they try to run away from a car they have just broken into.

Any less restricted area really does need the full monty to be safe. You know, completely unexpected things do happen - like earthquakes, sinkholes, lamposts and trees falling down. You simply cannot go forward with a half-baked device that can handle the 50, 70, even 99%, of predictable events but be utterly confused by others. They need full ability to handle even rare situations.
Whereas half baked, soozeled humans are equally bad at unpredictable events... There is an expectation that machines must be be perfect whereas we know people are not.
Not to many drivers will do well in earthquakes, sink holes forming in front of them and even trees falling. Passive safety systems such as good road design, are good for both man and machine.
My Peugeot is fitted with a radar facing forward to calculate safe travelling seperation I have found it invaluable in travelling in mist and fog on a motorway. It can see further than I can . A guidance cable embedded in the road, could easily provide lane information for traffic on motorways, and hands free driving.
 
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Woosh

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If its own location sensing is wrong, it will feed duff information.
that's the same situation with all kinds of computer based systems in daily use. If your microwave's clock goes wrong, you may set fire to your house etc.
Which means that you have to depend on that vehicle's GPS accurately identifying its location.
the datastream from an incoming car includes the transponder ID, the reference system eg WGS1984, satellites identification and readings. They are normally compared to your car's own datastream for fixing. Your car can then look up its databases for the model of the incoming car, uses its imaging system to identify the incoming car among all the objects that your car's camera(s) can see. Galileo will be certainly useful for driverless cars.
 
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flecc

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Any less restricted area really does need the full monty to be safe. You know, completely unexpected things do happen - like earthquakes, sinkholes, lamposts and trees falling down. You simply cannot go forward with a half-baked device that can handle the 50, 70, even 99%, of predictable events but be utterly confused by others. They need full ability to handle even rare situations.
Nissan's top Leaf model has self drive cameras, radar and sonar, the full monty. This is what they say about usage:

It is dependent on adequate road marking lines.

In bright sunshine at some angles it cannot see the lines.

Bright sunshine on a shiny vehicle can mean it's not detected. (It was that which killed a Tesla driver).

Fog and mist reduce the system's capability.

Road dirt on the car can stop the cameras and sensors detecting.

Heavy rain affects the system's performance.

The system can have great difficulty in seeing a bicycle.

Do not use the system above 60 mph.

That last one means it's limited for motorway use, the one place where the white lines may be dependable!

My conclusion is, why did they bother?

They've been a pioneer in driverless research, but in demonstration after demonstration on roads, their driver has had to snatch back control for an emergency situation.
.
 

Woosh

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cameras and all types of sensors get better all the time.
 

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