Brexit, for once some facts.

[anotherkiwi]

When did I say France was due to fail. It's stronger than ever. I can only comment on how I find things. I found systematic corruption in France (and Spain, Greece) Our local Mayor and immobilier are both serving time as we speak. The incumbent organisation was marginally better. (The Mayor and estate agent were highlighting land, buying it cheap, passing building permission and selling on)We lost land under compulsory purchase through their scheme. It does have an effect. No matter how you see it, I see France as having a corruption problem. Hence my vote to leave EU. Then getting labelled a racist by such as you is only adding injury to insult.

Read back through your posts, you said basket case economy in a few.

I never stoop to personal attacks you must be confusing me with someone else. I did say that one of the main factors of the brexit vote was xenophobia (which I gave the definition for) without being nominative i.e. many voted for brexit because of xenophobia - fear of others - but never mentioned you in particular.

 

[Zlatan]

What's the connection?

Good question.
I see the EU has feeding that corruption. It certainly did in Catalonia, agreed not intentionally. It was similar in both Spain and Greece. Massive amounts of cash are put out on offer. I think it's buying the rich and powerful and the greedy middle class. The ones who hold sway in meetings, on boards, on forums. Yes, the high earners profit,the Mayors get back handers, the "artisans" get contracts.. the world goes on... But mean time the folk begging at Lidl or sitting on plastic chairs by side of new roads get nothing. It's endemic OG. I found same scenario in South France, Northern Spain and Greece. So I voted out.

 

[Zlatan]

Read back through your posts, you said basket case economy in a few.

I never stoop to personal attacks you must be confusing me with someone else. I did say that one of the main factors of the brexit vote was xenophobia (which I gave the definition for) without being nominative i.e. many voted for brexit because of xenophobia - fear of others - but never mentioned you in particular.

Think we are both at cross purposes. France has a much better economy than 15 years ago. Probably I said about Pigs of Europe but if I did include France it was by mistake. (The basket cases (your word not mine) have for quite a while been looked on as Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. Not France.
Calling groups of people xenophobic when you have never met, know nothing about them and have no idea why they voted as they did is part of the problem, not the cure.
I said above a year ago I voted leave after reading Peter Hargreaves report(and for reasons mentioned in last post)
And, there lies the problem especially on this thread. Why on earth should any individuals feel the need to justify voting as they did in the face of being labelled xenophobic by you or racist by others. It's simply wrong and this kind d of attitude has made people much more unlikely to change their opinion. (well they might change that but wouldn't change their vote)
BTW I adore France. I, m here now. Spend half my life here. Love the country side, weather and people.
Actually thinking of buying again here at Figeac, if I can find the Mayor to bribe. It's an absolutely stunning town.
And well away from all the crime around Barcelona... but don't get me going on that. (Robbed twice!!!)

 

[oldgroaner]

Good question.
I see the EU has feeding that corruption. It certainly did in Catalonia, agreed not intentionally. It was similar in both Spain and Greece. Massive amounts of cash are put out on offer. I think it's buying the rich and powerful and the greedy middle class. The ones who hold sway in meetings, on boards, on forums. Yes, the high earners profit,the Mayors get back handers, the "artisans" get contracts.. the world goes on... But mean time the folk begging at Lidl or sitting on plastic chairs by side of new roads get nothing. It's endemic OG. I found same scenario in South France, Northern Spain and Greece. So I voted out.

Rubbish! If it was the fault of the EU it should be happening here as well, do you imagine that brexit will change anything here for the better?
How on earth do you on the one hand want out of the EU then live in France?
France is still on the EU is it not
And by voting for us to leave you undermine France's economy.
Strange sense of loyalty.
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Zlatan]

Rubbish! If it was the fault of the EU it should be happening here as well, do you imagine that brexit will change anything here for the better?
How on earth do you on the one hand want out of the EU then live in France?
France is still on the EU is it not
And by voting for us to leave you undermine France's economy.
Strange sense of loyalty.
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Again, good point OG but I dont agree with you. And you have no right at all to rubbish my opinion.
You seem incapable of offering an opinion without insulting mine.
I respect your opinion, you might even be right. Personally think the EU is using all its cash as a massive PR stunt to gain support of influential. They pretend to care for underprivileged but do not. I, ve offered my personal evidence. I can do no more. You are wrong.

Why shouldn't I visit France from outside EU. You are being very insular and naive to think that leaving EU will somehow stop people visiting Europe from UK. I visit USA and Caribbean yearly, owned land on Jamaica for years. What's the difference.???

 

[oldtom]

Sounds a lot bigoted to me, are you a bigot Tom?

No but I think you have set your stall out though vicar!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

I hate all those crap labels used to make people think they are more intelligent,

Are you going to bring anything to the discussion in this thread or are you simply intent on criticising me or the anti-'Brexit' proponents generally?

You have presumably had a look around the various areas of the 'Pedelecs' forum then decided to step into this particular topic in 'The Charging Post' where you have very quickly displayed a rather arrogant manner.

I don't mind but I'd prefer if you'd spare me the 'be nice' message. I do my best really but I'm afraid the older I get, the less I suffer fools gladly.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Again, good point OG but I dont agree with you. And you have no right at all to rubbish my opinion.
You seem incapable of offering an opinion without insulting mine.
I respect your opinion, you might even be right. Personally think the EU is using all its cash as a massive PR stunt to gain support of influential. They pretend to care for underprivileged but do not. I, ve offered my personal evidence. I can do no more. You are wrong.

Why shouldn't I visit France from outside EU. You are being very insular and naive to think that leaving EU will somehow stop people visiting Europe from UK. I visit USA and Caribbean yearly, owned land on Jamaica for years. What's the difference.???

You mentioned living in France did you not?
And quite frankly I have every right to describe an opinion as Rubbish if I think it is, as you have frequently done to mine.
Nothing insulting about that, unless you can't stand criticism of course!

 

[ianboydsnr]

No but I think you have set your stall out though vicar!

Tom

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[ianboydsnr]

Are you going to bring anything to the discussion in this thread or are you simply intent on criticising me or the anti-'Brexit' proponents generally?

You have presumably had a look around the various areas of the 'Pedelecs' forum then decided to step into this particular topic in 'The Charging Post' where you have very quickly displayed a rather arrogant manner.

I don't mind but I'd prefer if you'd spare me the 'be nice' message. I do my best really but I'm afraid the older I get, the less I suffer fools gladly.

Tom

What could possibly be arrogant about calling out bigotry when it’s clearly displayed, age is no excuse for bad manners,

Arrogance is saying most Brexit supporters are racist or thick,

It’s not anti Brexit that I am criticising its arrogance and bigotry, and I would criticise that whichever side you or anyone is on, voting one side or the other is no invitation to be insulting and rude.

I have posted in other topics, but I am sorry i didn’t know this one was reserved for you to post derogatory terms about people who have a different view to you,

I am quite happy to stop posting in this section if that’s the consensus among regular posters.

 

[flecc]

I am quite happy to stop posting in this section if that’s the consensus among regular posters.

I vote for you to stay, all opinions welcome.
.

 

[Danidl]

What's this nonsense about bribery?. I purchased a property in France by the simple expedient of going into a notaire and negotiating a price acceptable to the vendor. No under table dealings My one and only engagement with the mayor was after we were ensconced in our house, neighbours introduced him to us and he welcomed us..

 

[Zlatan]

What's this nonsense about bribery?. I purchased a property in France by the simple expedient of going into a notaire and negotiating a price acceptable to the vendor. No under table dealings My one and only engagement with the mayor was after we were ensconced in our house, neighbours introduced him to us and he welcomed us..

You probably bought the land we had taken off us...

 

[ianboydsnr]

What's this nonsense about bribery?. I purchased a property in France by the simple expedient of going into a notaire and negotiating a price acceptable to the vendor. No under table dealings My one and only engagement with the mayor was after we were ensconced in our house, neighbours introduced him to us and he welcomed us..

I dunno about France, but there were plenty of dealings when I lived in Hungary, even the solicitors wanted paid in cash, I have no doubt that bribery is everywhere, including here, but better hidden, and I am sure it’s there in spades in the EU, but it’s human nature at fault not the EU, though I hope they are working to reduce it.

 

[Zlatan]

What could possibly be arrogant about calling out bigotry when it’s clearly displayed, age is no excuse for bad manners,

Arrogance is saying most Brexit supporters are racist or thick,

It’s not anti Brexit that I am criticising its arrogance and bigotry, and I would criticise that whichever side you or anyone is on, voting one side or the other is no invitation to be insulting and rude.

I have posted in other topics, but I am sorry i didn’t know this one was reserved for you to post derogatory terms about people who have a different view to you,

I am quite happy to stop posting in this section if that’s the consensus among regular posters.

Ignore Tom, I know it's difficult and that I react aswell. Please stay, whilst he's having a go at you he, s not calling me a racist, xenophobic, scum tory voting troll. Stay around a while and you, ll get similar. I, ve had it about a year now.

 

[Zlatan]

When we came to sell a piece of land (in France) we approached 2 estate agents. (my phone won't accept French word). One wanted 9% for selling, other wanted flat rate of 6000 euro.
We chose the cheaper, who found a buyer... but then refused to handle sale. Told us other estate agent would have to or we, d lose sale. We went with other. Turned out they split the (expensive) commission between them. Not quite corrupt, but I, m telling you be careful buying or selling in France or Spain. It's not like UK at all.
We have other similar and worse stories about French and Spanish house/land purchases/sales.
The worst one being. A good mate bought a large house with about 10 acres of land. All official and directly with Notaire. (he even had a set of deeds which is very unusual in France, Notaire normally keeps them)
Came back to house from England and Mayor had had about 2 acres of his land fenced off. He had decided it was common land.
Another mate bought a piece of building land with building permission. Originally told he had 5 years before permission lapsed. He received a letter saying if he didn't complete build in 3 months he, d lose permission. He negotiated to start in 3 and finish in 6.
The mayors are almost omnipotent. Good ones are great... Bad ones.. Well guess.

 

[Zlatan]

And another story on French theme...
Second hand cars are mega expensive in France, so we bought a Renault at home, got Matriculation documents (, needed to bring a French car back to France), had it inspected, signed there were no outstanding debts etc and applied for new (French),number at the Mayors (yes Mayor does it???) and eventually imported car to France.. Great, had 2 yearly control technique, and ran it for 5 years. When we decided to leave we thought we, d give it away if it passed CT or scrap it if it failed. It failed, so of it went to be scrapped. Got 150 euro for it got the scrapping certificate. Sent a copy to mayor, a copy to insurance and a copy to registration centre. Great all done. Phoned /emailed all 3 to confirm car was scrapped. Replies. Yes all OK. Last November (it's about 2 years later by now) we received a letter demanding we pay insurance on car and asking for last year's... And believe it or not a speeding fine dated 6 months after it was "scrapped".. We are now getting similar letters monthly...
Sent copies of certificate to all concerned. Letters still arrive.

 

[Woosh]

How on earth do you on the one hand want out of the EU then live in France?

nothing wrong with that. Personal reasons, family, business etc. All that and politics are not necessarily predictable nor directly linked.

 

[Woosh]

a four-page draft of the backstop proposal for customs arrangement after brexit circulated to ministers is described as a "Hotel California" scenario where the UK never fully leaves the EU.


Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

 

[ianboydsnr]

a four-page draft of the backstop proposal for customs arrangement after brexit circulated to ministers is described as a "Hotel California" scenario where the UK never fully leaves the EU.


Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

Sounds like them kicking the can down the road, I suppose it could be worse, but it could possibly be the plan to make it someone else’s problem,

Though it would be good if they got on with things and either leave or cancel, and let things get back to normal.