Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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This snippet in the Independent hadly got a mention anywhere else.

"the Commons' Brexit committee warned that the UK remaining in the customs union well into the next decade is likely to be the "only viable option". The commitee's report was endorsed by all committee members, including prominent Brexiteers such as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Wow!
 

Woosh

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This snippet in the Independent hadly got a mention anywhere else.

"the Commons' Brexit committee warned that the UK remaining in the customs union well into the next decade is likely to be the "only viable option". The commitee's report was endorsed by all committee members, including prominent Brexiteers such as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Wow!
in the brexit committee, 7 brexiters, 14 remainers.
outside the brexit committee, remain MPs in Parliament are three times more numerous than leave MPs.
In the brexit inner cabinet, 5 brexiters + 5 remainers +TM.
It's no wonder that brexit voters feel it's a stitch-up and TM must go.
 

oldgroaner

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The problem is voters elect MPs to do what is best for the country, which is not always what is popular. So if Brexit is a bad idea, it doesn't matter if its popular, MPs have a duty to stop it.
And it's time someone told the Brexit Voters the whole truth without the lies and promises, and who the culprits in this squalid comic opera are.
 

Woosh

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The problem is voters elect MPs to do what is best for the country, which is not always what is popular. So if Brexit is a bad idea, it doesn't matter if its popular, MPs have a duty to stop it.
there was no caveat on the voting paper nor on the government prospectus: your vote is only advisory. Parliament may act on it or take no notice.
DC promised that his government will act on it, Labour promised to deliver brexit.
Just cough up the money to prepare for no deal brexit and negotiate to join the EEA.
 
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oldgroaner

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there was no caveat on the voting paper nor on the government prospectus: your vote is only advisory. Parliament may act on it or take no notice.
DC promised that his government will act on it, Labour promised to deliver brexit.
Just cough up the money to prepare for no deal brexit and negotiate to join the EEA.
But there was on the Referendum, remember?
Cameron refused to honour his promise, and the promises made by other Politicians definitely fall into the only advisory category, especially for those from the Pound Land Trump, Gollum, the Cheshire Cat and Moggy
 
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oldtom

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EU WILL PAY: Theresa May vows REVENGE on Brussels as UK is excluded from security project

Revenge? oh for crying out loud!
I can't stop laughing - what are we going to do; send a gunboat?

The UK is a laughing-stock thanks to all the narrow-minded hypocrites expressing sham piety over in another thread.

The braying 'Brexit' lovers who brought this depressing situation upon us have simply no answers to the important questions that will impact on our children and grandchildren so they would like to have expelled, all those pro-European advocates on this site who make them feel embarrassed by their idiocy.

Nobody is forced to read every thread in the forum so, as the old adage goes, 'If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!' I try to avoid those threads in regard to transforming legally compliant EAPCs into motor vehicles which will likely never be made to comply with any regulations. So, as the site owners seem content to permit discussion and encouragement from individuals in a conspiracy to commit an offence which would render individuals concerned as being 'accessories before the fact', I'm happy to go along with their position and I'm aware that the forum generally seems to self-police pretty well without intervention.

It is impossible to avoid the intrusion by trolls but they're pretty harmless in the main although more than a bit sad.

Can we continue with this thread as it is now proving that 'Brexit' is everything that pro-Europeans predicted and the 'Leave' brigade are throwing their toys out of the pram in this forum because they know they've been had over?

Tom
 
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oldgroaner

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I can't stop laughing - what are we going to do; send a gunboat?

The UK is a laughing-stock thanks to all the narrow-minded hypocrites expressing sham piety over in another thread.

The braying 'Brexit' lovers who brought this depressing situation upon us have simply no answers to the important questions that will impact on our children and grandchildren so they would like to have expelled, all those pro-European advocates on this site who make them feel embarrassed by their idiocy.

Nobody is forced to read every thread in the forum so, as the old adage goes, 'If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!' I try to avoid those threads in regard to transforming legally compliant EAPCs into motor vehicles which will likely never be made to comply with any regulations. So, as the site owners seem content to permit discussion and encouragement from individuals in a conspiracy to commit an offence which would render individuals concerned as being 'accessories before the fact', I'm happy to go along with their position and I'm aware that the forum generally seems to self-police pretty well without intervention.

It is impossible to avoid the intrusion by trolls but they're pretty harmless in the main although more than a bit sad.

Can we continue with this thread as it is now proving that 'Brexit' is everything that pro-Europeans predicted and the 'Leave' brigade are throwing their toys out of the pram in this forum because they know they've been had over?

Tom
It would appear that even the pro Brexiteers Moggy and co are signing up to what is effectively an admission of defeat for their more and more ill starred Brexit fetish.
They can obviously see the supposedly glittering prize is an illusion, even the tone of the rabid right wing press is either muted, or simply fails to mention each reverse they encounter.
Them signing up to the Customs union barely got a mention, either for fear of further rocking the boat, or because they have been told to "cool it" before the Government Spin doctors have managed to conjure a viable smokecreen.

Hopefully it will be a better one than the pathetic attempt to blame Russia for the Prank pulled on Boris that should never have even got to him, and he as usual made a complete fool of himself, worse he proved to the Russians how gullible and vulnerable the Foreign Office is.

How are we going to "Defend ourselves in a Cyber War with Russia" after this?
Putin must be in danger of getting a Hernia from laughing at us.

Clearly our Government has Cyber hardened Communications equivalent to Chocolate Fireguard.
The Russians are defeating us with the oldest weapon of all
Undermining our Credibility with W.M.D.s
(Weapons of Mass Derision)
And our reaction?
"
UK believes Kremlin behind prank call to Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson
Russian pranksters pretended to be the Armenian prime minister in a call to Mr Johnson.

If this is true than we have reached the point where Russia no longer regards us as a threat, simply a bunch of fools they can torment with jokes at will.
One things for sure Putin must be considering giving Boris some sort of award for his services to them!
 
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oldgroaner

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There's another interesting piece in today's 'Guardian' as it seems more and more people are now addressing the sorry state this government has got itself into:

eu-brexit-fantasy-dominic-cummings

Tom
And there are still far too many who insist of hanging on in the hope of a Miracle,that somehow Brexit will be worthwhile, whatever the cost may be.
And still none seem able to say just what the benefit is likely to be!
 
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Woosh

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still none seem able to say just what the benefit is likely to be!
I have repeated a few times the reasons why half of the country voted for brexit. You don't like them, don't accept them but that does not make them any less important to those who voted to leave.
People don't change their view because of politicians' lies, otherwise we'll be like Italy, one new government every year.
 
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oldgroaner

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I have repeated a few times the reasons why half of the country voted for brexit. You don't like them, don't accept them but that does not make them any less important to those who voted to leave.
People don't change their view because of politicians' lies, otherwise we'll be like Italy, one new government every year.
With respect that didn't answer the question, did it?
Just what benefit are they expecting to achieve?
Can you answer that question?

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oldgroaner

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And I have repeated many times I sympathize with many of their complaints, but with respect that doesn't answer the question, does it?
Just what benefit are they expecting to achieve?
Can you answer that question?

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Woosh

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half of the country believe we'll do better outside the EU, and that the collective decisions (EU directives) that the EU have taken do not coincide with their interests, they disagree with remainers on CAP, on CFP, on FOM, on compulsory EU wide competitive tendering for all public projects, on EU rules of state aids, on the common foreign policy, on future EU army and on long term political union. They also object to paying contributions to the EU budget.
 
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oldgroaner

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half of the country believe we'll do better outside the EU, and that the collective decisions (EU directives) that the EU have taken do not coincide with their interests, they disagree with remainers on CAP, on CFP, on FOM, on compulsory EU wide competitive tendering for all public projects, on the common foreign policy, on future EU army and on long term political union.
No, woosh, only a limited number of people understand any of those things, and most of them have only come up to speed after they voted.
Ignorance of the operation of the EU is evident even in the government today, never mind the public.
And we still have not answered the question.
What will be better , who will make it happen, where is the plan?
How can anyone hope that either party can make us successful?
With what? Half of our industry is foreign owned already, and much of it in decline.
If the public is expecting anything other than declining living standards, personal rights and freedoms, where are the signs indicating reason to hope for change for the better.
There are none

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Woosh

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And we still have not answered the question.
I will try to answer in a different way.
Let's just suppose we run EURef2 tomorrow.
How many of those who voted to leave do you think will vote to remain this time? I reckon not that many. Possibly 2% change camp, the rest will vote exactly like they did the last time. This is because if you ask them 'do you know what you voted for?' the answer is the same, now or in 2 years, yes. Only the young people who were 16-17 in 2016 now are part of the new electorate and those who did not vote last time will help remain win this time round.
That is why I believe you have to get out first to see if you like what you voted for while trying to keep the door ajar just in case you don't like what you see.
 

oldgroaner

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That is why I believe you have to get out first to see if you like what you voted for while trying to keep the door ajar just in case you don't like what you see.
That is what is no doubt going to happen, and it will result in big trouble when the Public is disappointed,as inevitably they will be.

Brexit has a parallel: Russian Roulette is very much the name of the game
An utterly pointless exercise in how to misrule a country.

Taking a huge risk with no guarantee of success, no idea of the risk involved, and how to turn events to our advantage, or even achieve what we have already.
And all on the basis of a marginal vote bought with lies and false promises.
 

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