Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Apologies for posting this again but I do not think anyone offered any explanation as to why Litvinenco felt like saying the things he did on his death bed. IMO both his situation and comments are an indictment of the way people are treated under Putin. We might feel put down, badly done to etc etc but read this man's statement and then try and defend Russia?


"I would like to thank many people. My doctors, nurses and hospital staff who are doing all they can for me, the British police who are pursuing my case with vigour and professionalism and are watching over me and my family.

I would like to thank the British government for taking me under their care. I am honoured to be a British citizen.

I would like to thank the British public for their messages of support and for the interest they have shown in my plight.

I thank my wife Marina, who has stood by me. My love for her and our son knows no bounds.

But as I lie here I can distinctly hear the beating of wings of the angel of death.

I may be able to give him the slip but I have to say my legs do not run as fast as I would like.

I think, therefore, that this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition.

You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed.

You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilised value.

You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilised men and women.

You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life.

May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.


Alexander Litvinenko
21 November 2006


Flecc
You really think Russia are the innocent party in all this ? Litvinenco's statement made up ? The Public Inquiry wrong ?
Russia needs Putin ???

 

[Zlatan]

Why?

Because Iran/ Syria/ Russia want a free hand to do as they wish.
And discredit West, specifically US,UK and France.
I dont agree we should be playing international policeman ( again) but portraying us as the bad guys is wrong.

 

[oldgroaner]

Apologies for posting this again but I do not think anyone offered any explanation as to why Litvinenco felt like saying the things he did on his death bed. IMO both his situation and comments are an indictment of the way people are treated under Putin. We might feel put down, badly done to etc etc but read this man's statement and then try and defend Russia?


"I would like to thank many people. My doctors, nurses and hospital staff who are doing all they can for me, the British police who are pursuing my case with vigour and professionalism and are watching over me and my family.

I would like to thank the British government for taking me under their care. I am honoured to be a British citizen.

I would like to thank the British public for their messages of support and for the interest they have shown in my plight.

I thank my wife Marina, who has stood by me. My love for her and our son knows no bounds.

But as I lie here I can distinctly hear the beating of wings of the angel of death.

I may be able to give him the slip but I have to say my legs do not run as fast as I would like.

I think, therefore, that this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition.

You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed.

You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilised value.

You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilised men and women.

You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life.

May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.


Alexander Litvinenko
21 November 2006


Flecc
You really think Russia are the innocent party in all this ? Litvinenco's statement made up ? The Public Inquiry wrong ?

Exactly what is the relevance of any of that?
Has everyone forgotten what this Guy did for a living? hardly a saint, was he,
1988, he was officially transferred to the Third Chief Directorate of the KGB, Military Counter Intelligence.[14] Later that year, after studying for a year at the Novosibirsk Military Counter Intelligence School, he became an operational officer and served in KGB military counterintelligence until 1991
Litvinenko also saw active military service in many of the so-called "hot spots" of the former USSR and Russia.[18] During the First Chechen War, Litvinenko planted several FSB agents in Chechnya.
Then suddenly he becomes one of the good guys?
Of course....
And we have a habit of killing off our own citizens if they join rebel jihadi groups with drone strikes, ordered publicly by Mrs May
Tell me, what is the difference?

 

[Woosh]

I dont agree we should be playing international policeman ( again) but portraying us as the bad guys is wrong.

we should play a role in international peace keeping because we are one of the five permanent members of the Security Council. The other 4 are Russia, China, USA and France.
From that point of view, the bombing of Syria for reason of deterring the use of chemical weapons is partly justified (3 of 5) and not entirely justified because a) there is no UN resolution to support it b) it is pretty clear that regime change is sought by the bombing 3 and c) chlorine is not banned.

 

[oldgroaner]

Because Iran/ Syria/ Russia want a free hand to do as they wish.
And discredit West, specifically US,UK and France.
I dont agree we should be playing international policeman ( again) but portraying us as the bad guys is wrong.

Alternatively we could be doing the very same sort of things, a game we have played longer than anyone else and with more skill
Russia doesn't have to discredit the West
We Gun run to mass murderers every day of the week and act as the USA's attack dog.
You can't insult the good name of this country it has never deserved one, has it?

 

[Zlatan]

Exactly what is the relevance of any of that?

Because it shows Putin and his organisation for what it is. The Litvinenco case has a massive bearing on all this, to dismiss it is to dismiss the core of the problem.
Its like saying the Kray twins early behaviour had nothing to do with their later killings. It tells you an awful lot about the people we are dealing with.
Or perhaps you think Litvinenco was just saying what he,d been told, just like Yulia Skripal now, or that Assad has not used banned chemicals on his own people. ???
You are diismissing important evidence because it does not support your views. Russia / Putin tried to kill Skripals, Bashad used banned chemicals against his own.people. Evidence to the contrary ate ( IMO) lies and or red herrings.

 

[flecc]

May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.

Livinenko was clearly wrong here. As our Western poll confirmed, Putin in the election has the support of at least 70% of the Russian people. Hardly surprising when they enjoy the highest living standards ever in Russian history.

You really think Russia are the innocent party in all this ?

Why ask this? Didn't I just post this?

They've lied to us too many times over the years, illegally overthrown too many regimes, for me to believe they are any better than the Russians in this respect.

That clearly tars both the West and Russia with the same brush. Both sides connive as dishonestly in pursuit of their own agenda.

Syria and Russia using chemical weapons? So has the West repeatedly. Using the RAF we taught Saddam Hussein how to attack and kill the Kurds with mustard gas. The USA perpetrated chemical warfare on a vast scale against the Vietnamese, still to this day horribly deformed babies being born as a result.

But now because Syria uses far less harmful chlorine which can be washed off, they are animals? What does that make the USA and Britain, it has to be far lower than animals.

Wake up Zlatan. The world, west and east, is run by criminals. Remember, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which political bunch have the greater power, those running the 940 millions of NATO or those the Russian 190 millions? Who would you think is the bully?
.

 

[Zlatan]

Alternatively we could be doing the very same sort of things, a game we have played longer than anyone else and with more skill
Russia doesn't have to discredit the West
We Gun run to mass murderers every day of the week and act as the USA's attack dog.
You can't insult the good name of this country it has never deserved one, has it?

That is unfair OG and you know it and if you really believe it its pointless us continuing our discussion.

 

[oldgroaner]

Bashad used banned chemicals against his own.people. Evidence to the contrary ate ( IMO) lies and or red herrings.

Where is your evidence? a video shot by a group of white helmets who seem immune to the effects of these so called chemicals and are totally unprofessional when dealing with so called casualties who allegedly do not actually have chemically induced injuries?
As Flecc pointed out chlorine gas isn't banned, and there are other candidates too besides Assad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

 

[oldgroaner]

That is unfair OG and you know it and if you really believe it its pointless us continuing our discussion.

Not at all it is accurate and justified.

 

[tillson]

There seems to be some quite anti stories around about the White helmets likg this
"
James Le Mesurier: The Former British Mercenary Who Founded The White Helmets

James Le Mesurier, a British ex-mercenary, founded the White Helmets in 2013. The group has been lauded for its “humanitarian” efforts in Syria, but they have actually functioned more as a logistics and propaganda arm of Syria’s al-Qaeda branch, complete with training from Le Mesurier.
(a former British Intelligence officer)


by Whitney Webb
https://www.mintpressnews.com/james-le-mesurier-british-ex-military-mercenary-founded-white-helmets/230320/

I’m suspicious that Le Mesurier is a shareholder in an Austrian company called Airborne Technologies, but I can’t find a reference to this on the internet to check it out. This company supplies airborne law enforcement platforms throughout Europe. I’m pretty sure they also kitted out several Partenavia P68s with small calibre canons for ground attack and sold them to several suspect African nations. The German police, who used to be a big customer, have refused to do business with them because of this association.

 

[Zlatan]

OG / Flecc
If I thought so lowly of country I resided in I,d pack my bags and live elsewhere.
Yes, obviously UK has its faults and had been guilty of terrible things in past, but to compare our regime, even this corrupt inadequate set of politicians with such as Putin ,Assad etc etc is actually very very naive.( and actually dangerous)

 

[Zlatan]

So let just sum all this up.
KGB ( Russian) had nothing to do with umbrella ricin attack.
Litvinenco deserved poisoning ( by polonium?) on UK soil because he was a bad guy...or actually event never happened/ and /or Litvinenco was wrong on his death bed blaming Putin. The PI into case got all its conclusions wrong.
Putin/ Russia had nothing to do with Skripal poisonings. ( It wasn't Novichok anyway)
White Helmets are not humanitarian helpers, they are US/ UK agents sent there to make up stories about banned chemical substances being used against civilians because Assad only used Chlorine. Putin was actually within his rights to annexe Crimean. Anything else I,ve got wrong ?? Oh ves, May organised the Salisbury poisonings as a distraction.. Oh , and nobody on here believing any of above actually takes conspiracy theories seriously...well ofcourse not..
You are all joking, its a wind up to keep me posting.
Putins propoganda war has worked.
I,m sailing in morning so off to bed. Thankfully no signal at sea.
Take care.

 

[flecc]

OG / Flecc
If I thought so lowly of country I resided in I,d pack my bags and live elsewhere.

Why? There is no uncorrupt elsewhere as I've made clear.

Yes, obviously UK has its faults and had been guilty of terrible things in past, but to compare our regime, even this corrupt inadequate set of politicians with such as Putin ,Assad etc etc is actually very very naive.

Nonsense, why does a little while ago make something ok? Not long ago you were quoting very old actions against the USSR and Stalin, but now our Western crimes, including much more recently in the Balkans and Iraq are ok?

You are the naive one, believing any lie our politicians dole out while being certain anyone opposed to us is automatically wrong in everything.
.

 

[flecc]

I,m sailing in morning so off to bed. Thankfully no signal at sea.
Take care.

Watch out for Russian submarines! Putin could be out to get you.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG / Flecc
If I thought so lowly of country I resided in I,d pack my bags and live elsewhere.
Yes, obviously UK has its faults and had been guilty of terrible things in past, but to compare our regime, even this corrupt inadequate set of politicians with such as Putin ,Assad etc etc is actually very very naive.( and actually dangerous)

Is that why you always seem to be somewhere else?

 

[oldgroaner]

Watch out for Russian submarines! Putin could be out to get you.

View attachment 24205

Shades of "Don't give them your name Pike?"

 

[oldgroaner]

Putins propoganda war has worked.

In your case this country's propaganda has worked, try to use logic for a change.

 

[Woosh]

more on Skripal: poisoned by BZ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/skripals-skripal-russia-nerve-agent-bz-novichok-poison-salisbury-attack-latest-update-a8304841.html

 

[oldgroaner]

The Daily Mail have tested the wind of public opinion and
"
Theresa May faces public backlash for bombing Syria without backing of Parliament as fears grow Russia could strike back with cyber attacks on hospitals, banks and airports

• The first poll showed that the public believe Mrs May's action was wrong by a majority of almost two to one
• Public opposition to the raids in the Survation poll was mirrored by signs of political unrest over the strikes
• Fellow Cabinet Ministers David Davis, Esther McVey and Sajid Javid voiced concern at snubbing Parliament
• But fears have arisen over a Russian cyber backlash that could see vital services including hospitals attacked

Jumped ship!