Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Just been listening to a fascinating account of how the West fears it is losing Turkey to Russia. Since 2015 their two presidents have been cosying up and are now closely aligned, Turkey even installing a Russian missile defence system, much to NATO's alarm. Turkey is now a preferred holiday destination for Russians and the Cyrillic alphabet characters are often seen in major shop signs there.

It's all getting the West very rattled since Turkey is a NATO member and one of the five NATO nuclear partners. The EU is trying to find a formula that will keep Turkey in the Western fold without giving them EU membership, the latter impossible with Turkey's very poor human rights record.

Since Turkey's huge standing defence forces are second only to the USA, it's loss to the Russian side would be a strategic disaster for the West.

Once again this illustrates both that Putin should never be underestimated and how easily he runs rings around Western strategy.
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Strategy and our government? not a chance! that would require the application of intelligence,and For some unknown reason Boris is supposed to handle "Johnny Foreigners".
Thank heavens the entire world knows he's an idiot!
(Especially after his previous little rhyme about Erdogan!)

 

[Zlatan]

Mine wasn't about poisoning!
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Wasn't about Brexit either, just another pro Russia commercial.

 

[oldgroaner]

Wasn't about Brexit either, just another pro Russia commercial.

Why was it pro Russian?

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[flecc]

Wasn't about Brexit either, just another pro Russia commercial.

Not a commercial, just drawing attention to an interesting national news report explaining a growing strategic problem.

It's not my function to ensure balance, but on the other hand it seems Trump's and Putin's overtures will result in a state visit to the USA by Putin. Meanwhile the trade war between the USA and China gets much fiercer.

The outcomes of these developments ensure there won't be a dull moment on the international scene for some time.
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[oldgroaner]

Latest in hypocrisy by the Tory Press in the Telegraph
"
Jeremy Corbyn criticised for attending event hosted by far-Left Jewish group"

Er, hang on , isn't he supposed to be Antisemitic?
Or does that only apply to right wing Jewish Tory supporters?

This in the Express
Jeremy Corbyn ROASTED for meeting with RADICAL GROUP amid Labour Party anti-Semitism row
JEREMY Corbyn has been roasted by his Labour Party peers after it was revealed he attended a meeting with a radical left-wing group while his party is engulfed in an anti-Semitism row, it has emerged.
"
Mr Corbyn was pictured at the meeting with a group named Jewdas, who have blasted anti-Semitism allegations against the leader as “the work of cynical manipulations by people whose express loyalty is to the Conservative Party and the right wing of the Labour Party”.

In response, Labour-Coop MP for Barrow and Furness, John Woodcock, declared: "This is deliberately baiting the mainstream Jewish community days after they pleaded with him to tackle antisemitism.

So now the permission of the Jewish Community that supports the Conservatives is needed before he can make a move?

This farce has gone on long enough,next Corbyn smear scandal please,as this one has become just silly and vindictive.

 

[Woosh]

the BBC chips in too.

I picked this one from one of the commenters:

"What he does is left, not right."

 

[Woosh]

if you are interested in the JC - mural story , read this post:

https://www.facebook.com/kenroe61/posts/1849063345145144

 

[oldgroaner]

if you are interested in the JC - mural story , read this post:

https://www.facebook.com/kenroe61/posts/1849063345145144

Very interesting and Quite revealing about the reactions it drew.
Obviously it touched a raw nerve in some quarters
And they tried to twist the moral of the mural to suit their own agenda.

They saw what they wanted to see and weaponised it.
I can't wait to see if Banksy reacts to it, can you?

 

[Woosh]

it seems that the DT is the fake news factory to get Corbyn.

 

[Woosh]

They saw what they wanted to see and weaponised it.

they just run a fake story about it and make it go viral.
Back at the time the mural was painted (2012) and Corbyn's FB post, it wasn't a story because the context was different.

Making a story go viral is within the power of the press.

 

[oldgroaner]

Coonsidering the intensity of the Diversionary tactics being employed by the Tory's you have to wonder what they have done that requires such extreme action.
What the heck has she agreed to with the EU?
This is the EU Document on where we are now
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+TA+P8-TA-2018-0069+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+TA+P8-TA-2018-0069+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN
It looks as if the end result will be BRINO

We get a Deal worse then we have
Still pay in
Contribute to the EU army
Lose any influence over affairs.
Accept the ECJ

And all to protect the Offshore tax havens of the Jackass Grease Smug rabble

 

[Woosh]

It looks as if the end result will be BRINO

We get a Deal worse then we have
Still pay in
Contribute to the EU army
Lose any influence over affairs.
Accept the ECJ

no, no, no. You look at it the wrong way OG.

- we will pay in much less after settling the divorce bill, I reckon about a half that we paying now
- we won't contribute to the EU army - we will be legally opted out of any further EU integration same time next year.
- we won't disrupt EU projects that the EU27 support
- we only accept the ECJ where we participate

That is good.

 

[oldgroaner]

they just run a fake story about it and make it go viral.
Back at the time the mural was painted (2012) and Corbyn's FB post, it wasn't a story because the context was different.

Making a story go viral is within the power of the press.

They would employ slogans from the time of Oliver Cromwell if they thought they could get away with it.

As far as I can see, when viewed in the light of the actual Artist's comments, this mural is a fair and accurate assessment of the actions of a class of privileged people, and not antisemitic at all.

No one should be free of criticism for evil anti social behavior because of belonging to a particular race, whatever that may happen to be.

 

[oldgroaner]

no, no, no. You look at it the wrong way OG.

- we will pay in much less after settling the divorce bill, I reckon about a half that we paying now
- we won't contribute to the EU army - we will be legally opted out of any further EU integration same time next year.
- we won't disrupt EU projects that the EU27 support
- we only accept the ECJ where we participate

That is good.

I would point out we are already opted out of further integration anyway,and accepting the ECJ was supposed to be a red line.

 

[Woosh]

accepting the ECJ was supposed to be a red line.

red lines? As long as I can remember, politicians' promises are made to be broken.
(if they could actually do it (eg poverty reduction), they'd say they are doing it already).

 

[Danidl]

Coonsidering the intensity of the Diversionary tactics being employed by the Tory's you have to wonder what they have done that requires such extreme action.
What the heck has she agreed to with the EU?
This is the EU Document on where we are now
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+TA+P8-TA-2018-0069+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN
It looks as if the end result will be BRINO

We get a Deal worse then we have
Still pay in
Contribute to the EU army
Lose any influence over affairs.
Accept the ECJ

And all to protect the Offshore tax havens of the Jackass Grease Smug rabble

With respect, I think that that document is an internal view by the EU of what they would wish to happen and not any bilateral agreement. So to attribute any UK involvement in its production is overreach . the key paragraph looks to me as preamble. H. , Where bluntly they are saying the UK is all over the shop .

 

[flecc]

- we will pay in much less after settling the divorce bill, I reckon about a half that we paying now

But have far less than half the influence we have now, both in the EU and internationally

- we won't contribute to the EU army - we will be legally opted out of any further EU integration same time next year.

And will not enjoy any of the future protection of that army.

- we won't disrupt EU projects that the EU27 support

And won't benefit from any of their considerable values.

- we only accept the ECJ where we participate

Losing all of its other legal protections, historically far superior to that of out own courts.

That's all bad if it happens.
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[Woosh]

But have far less than half the influence we have now, both in the EU and internationally

we only want to trade, that's the only influence we'd need or want or be good for our neighbours.

And will not enjoy any of the future protection of that army.

unless we start bombing other countries first, protection from whose attacks? Most our neighbours already have the capability to destroy the whole continent.

And won't benefit from any of their considerable values.

Until we stop thinking we are superior to our neighbours, we are not going to reap any benefit.
There is also a theory that all organisations reap the early rewards through cooperation and pooling power/resources, after a while, they reach a plateau and start declining, eventually ending in the organisations being disbanded. Maybe the EU needs to keep the UK out for a time, then negotiate a new treaty to get us back in. That would give both UK and EU time to elvolve and mature differently than the last 45 years.

Losing all of its other legal protections, historically far superior to that of out own courts.

I think the ECJ has gone way beyond its role as arbiter of the single market and policeman of the EU treaties. It and the commission now represent the 'empire' - at least spiritually.

 

[flecc]

I think the ECJ has gone way beyond its role as arbiter of the single market and policeman of the EU treaties. It and the commission now represent the 'empire' - at least spiritually.

And I think that and union desirable, which of course is why we disagree on all these points.

If we don't eventually rejoin the EU or join another major power, we'll be nowhere, just an irrelevance in a world of future large powers.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

And I think that and union desirable, which of course is why we disagree on all these points.

If we don't eventually rejoin the EU or join another major power, we'll be nowhere, just an irrelevance in a world of future large powers.
.

We have the same future as the Saxon kingdoms had.
None at all

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