Ah.....yeah, but!Simply shows that horseshoes really don't bring much luck or protection.
.......was it because the horseshoe was the wrong way up? We could have a whole new thread on the correct way to hang a horseshoe as a good-luck charm.Tom
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
.......was it because the horseshoe was the wrong way up? We could have a whole new thread on the correct way to hang a horseshoe as a good-luck charm.Tom
They have identified Novichok. They know the history of Skripal and his feud with Putin. They know Putin has threatened traitors . They know ( if you believe last years PI into Litvinenco) that Russia are capable of such behaviour (they have done it before, with Polonium in 2006 , and were involved in the 1978 umbrella / ricin attack.)
Please explain which of my quote we do not know ?
We know it was novichok ?
We know Putin's feud with Skripal / traitors/ Litvinenco?
We know they organised / ordered Litvinenko murder .( If as I said originally you accept PI findings)
I accept a degree of cynicism or questioning on matters like this is important but to just claim " we dont know any of that" is a simple refusal to accept facts.
Please explain which of my quote we do not know ?
We know it was novichok ?
We know Putin's feud with Skripal / traitors/ Litvinenco?
We know they organised / ordered Litvinenko murder .( If as I said originally you accept PI findings)
OK, back to Britain and Brexit now (The thread subject)
Why do we so often invent and create so cleverly and not capitalise on what we achieve, not just in things but also in politics and law?
There's the example of the Human Rights Act, created and drafted by Britain but then not adopted. It was so perfect that the EU adopted it unchanged so we eventually received it by the back door as a member, but we should have led with it as our invention
We also invented the concept of the EU in it's final stage of a Europe united as one country, long before the Treaty of Rome. Below are Churchill's exact words on 16th June 1940:
At this most fateful moment the governments of the United Kingdom and the French Republic make this declaration of indissoluble union and unyielding resolution in their common defence of justice and freedom against subjection to a system which reduces mankind to a system which reduces them to a life of robots and slaves.
The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign and financial and economic policy. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British citizen will become a citizen of France.
Note that second paragraph describes exactly the ultimate aim of the EU, Population, Defence, Foreign, Financial and Economic Union, which of course necessitates substantial legal union as well.
The state of relationships during the war at that time excluded the other countries of the EU whch were either on the other side or sometimes overrun at the time, but Churchill included them in his post war statement of this subject.
But here we are yet again rejecting through Brexit one of our own finest creations that would be a benefit to the whole world, a United Europe. We must have some sort of a death wish.
.
Why do we so often invent and create so cleverly and not capitalise on what we achieve, not just in things but also in politics and law?
There's the example of the Human Rights Act, created and drafted by Britain but then not adopted. It was so perfect that the EU adopted it unchanged so we eventually received it by the back door as a member, but we should have led with it as our invention
We also invented the concept of the EU in it's final stage of a Europe united as one country, long before the Treaty of Rome. Below are Churchill's exact words on 16th June 1940:
At this most fateful moment the governments of the United Kingdom and the French Republic make this declaration of indissoluble union and unyielding resolution in their common defence of justice and freedom against subjection to a system which reduces mankind to a system which reduces them to a life of robots and slaves.
The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign and financial and economic policy. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British citizen will become a citizen of France.
Note that second paragraph describes exactly the ultimate aim of the EU, Population, Defence, Foreign, Financial and Economic Union, which of course necessitates substantial legal union as well.
The state of relationships during the war at that time excluded the other countries of the EU whch were either on the other side or sometimes overrun at the time, but Churchill included them in his post war statement of this subject.
But here we are yet again rejecting through Brexit one of our own finest creations that would be a benefit to the whole world, a United Europe. We must have some sort of a death wish.
.
Well, that's a relief!
Mr Izzard has previously demonstrated a unique talent for explaining
Tom
I blame Putin: not content with eliminating the odd dissident with Novichoc his scientists have developed dreadful weapons of mass stupidity to which we have been exposed.
Ok, you'll say you haven't any proof have you?
Drawing myself up Haughtily I shall reply
"Well Brexit got agreed to without any Proof it was a good idea.
These Russians got poisoned without any Proof"
After all he obviously used it to get Trump elected,didn't he?
We don't operate on needing proof: that's so "Twentieth Century"
Actually we don't know,it seems there are many kinds, and this material has less toxicity than claimed, and no one has actually stated precisely what was used, it's all still a question of Probability.
You believe you know
I am not convinced.
Both valid viewpoints
we haven't left yet and three years is a long time in politics.
the constant discussion about brexit will eventually educate the whole country why soft brexit is better than a 'clean brexit' and if we are going to be a more forward open country, we have to prove it first with our nearest neighbours.
I do accept blaming Putin is a leap of faith but we cant question absolutely everything. I cant find any other reference than poison being Novichok. Or is the assumption every thing we get told is lies ?
Did poisoning even happen ? How far do we take the scepticism ???
How deep does this conspiracy go ?
if you need proof, you can't ever trust a single politician.
Perhaps we should commision a Public Inquiry around the lies we are told...then dismiss its findings ??
can't you just accept that two people are treated for poisoning symptoms and the poison seems to be a nerve agent?
The link to Russia is on the balance of probabilities and the Russian government has not had an opportunity to examine the facts yet.
I prefer your method of instant blame without bothering with proof.
- Cheaper
- Faster
- You can always plead insanity (Works for me)
If we keep up the pressure they may decide to come to take a "Dekko" at the head of an Armoured Column.
Is there anyone else down there with you? (he asked with a smile)
Of course not, only those saying it is Novichok have access to it.
Not everything. With politicians the assumption is one of the following:
What is favourable to admit results in the truth.
What is partially convenient to admit results in half truths.
What is inconvenient to admit results in lies.
.
Sky News
"The poison used to target a former spy and his daughter is Russian-made nerve agent novichok."
I could find at least another 6 media sources saying same..
Are posters on here saying they are all wrong, lying or simply deceived...it then begs the question where are posters getting their " more accurate" information from.
What we conclude from this information is subjective, debateable but denying objective statements like the one quoted does not make sense.
Are folk really claiming our labs are not capable of recognising Novichok (s) or are they saying they are lying.???
"The poison used to target a former spy and his daughter is Russian-made nerve agent novichok."
I could find at least another 6 media sources saying same..
Are posters on here saying they are all wrong, lying or simply deceived...it then begs the question where are posters getting their " more accurate" information from.
What we conclude from this information is subjective, debateable but denying objective statements like the one quoted does not make sense.
Are folk really claiming our labs are not capable of recognising Novichok (s) or are they saying they are lying.???
The media have neither the access to the material nor the expertise to know.
They are just repeating the original statement, so it could be one lie by one person with everyone repeating it like sheep.
Just like WMD.
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