It was administered into the tea pot..tall and stout. But yes..otherwise the killers would be dead.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
There is no section 9/16 on page 239. There is this though:
9.192 The fact that Mr Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium 210 that had been manufactured in a nuclear reactor suggests that Mr Lugovoy and Mr Kovtun were acting for a state body, rather than (say) a criminal organisation.
I've shown that to be proven nonsense, since exactly this source of material is freely available. That alone shows Owen's wholly inadequate understanding. There is absolutely no indication that possession implies state backing. What I was doing with it wasn't state backed for example.
9.193 Although it cannot be said that the polonium 210 with which Mr Litvinenko was poisoned must have come from the Avangard facility in Russia, it certainly could have come from there.
Could have! What sort of evidence is that for reaching findings?
Really Zlatan, how can you be so easily fooled by this nonsense? That's exactly what was intended and you've fallen for it.
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That's exactly what I said fflecc. They have only said the Polinium could have come from there. ( agreed I got the quote number wrong, it was by memory, cant see both at once)
But you have found the quote..
Your assumption they have used this " finding" to arrive at conclusions is wrong. The conclusions around the FSB being responsible is to do with personell involved and the two carrying out the murder.
You said they had used origin of polonium to attach guilt to FSB. The quote you,ve given proves they did not.
I really dont see how anyone can not agree with findings after reading it. We could work our way through entire 328 pages...we still won't agree.( well I do, agree with Owen that is)
Its blatant Flecc. You dont need Sherlock or Miss Marples. Its an independent public enquiry, not some half baked journalist in the mail. Come on Flecc. Accept it. FSB ordered the hits under Putin's direction. Fact in this one.
And yes, I,ve fallen for it because its true.
At some point we have to accept something we are told or has been arrived at is the truth. We cant dismiss every single thing as lies or propoganda. To my mind a public enquiry is as close ascwe can get to having to accept its findings.
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Therefore no proof or even indication of any sort of guilt?
So let me show how, without Owen's complete ignorance of the subject, that it was very likely to have come from Russia in the first instance, by repeating what I've already posted earlier.
At the time the annual production of polonium 210 was a little under 100 grams, only a tiny 2.5 grams or so of that by the USA and all the rest by Russia who had more suitable facilities. Much of that Russian production was exported to the USA and elsewhere, meaning that the isotopes I bought and those the newsprint industry bought were between highly likely and almost certain to be Russian polonium 210.
These facts makes tracing the source to Russia pointless when we know any of it almost certainly came from there! This shows once again how shaky the knowledge displayed in the report is.
Frankly it's a disgrace.
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But none of that information was used in any conclusions. They looked at finding source to prove Russia innocent, but could not. That obviously does not prove guilt and was not assumed to in report. ( like I said your quote proves that to be case)
Which bit is the disgrace ? Killing of Litvinenko on Uk or our investigation into it ? I think you have a very strange attitude on this Flecc. They held a PI, studied all the evidence, ddisclosed all findings annd came to a conclusion..???
What is disgraceful about that ?
Perhaps because they came to a conclusion you happen not to agree with, that's all.
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I haven't answered because I haven't commented on the report before as I haven't read it. or for that matter intend to.
Frankly this whole matter is ruining your argument anyway, it would seem you are apportioning blame in the present (without evidence) on a report you take as the truth in the past.
So you are saying this incident now proves Putin is guilty by association with past crimes are you?
Interesting
Feel free it that amuses you.
"and OG claiming conclusions are wrong"
I didn't did I? you made that up as I made no comment on the report
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No, I,m not aportioning blame I left that to Mr Owen.
And yes , ofcourse there are parallels between the two cases.
And you have not answered the question. Do you accept findings of PI into Litvinenko murder.?
Its yes or no OG.
Let me ask you a question,
Why are you not merely asking, but demanding an answer from me? as I have already pointed out
If I haven't read the report, nor made any comment on it,so why should I make a choice?
I have no idea if he,or they did it (whoever they name in the report)
Why are you still asking me to express an opinion on something I know nothing about?
My name isn't Zlatan, I don't rely on my imagination to blame people because i don't like them, that's your department.
Here's my answer.
Dunno,
Now will you let this boring diatribe drop?
With all due respect Tom this dialogue will be above your comprehension. You won't understand things like Public Inquiries and Polinium is quite a big word.
Give Frankie Boyle a ring to see what you think about it.
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Absolutely, guilty not proven, and the fact as you've shown that Sir Robert has drawn attention to all the inconclusiveness shows he's normally an honourable man.
The disgrace has several elements. There's the false evidence created from the investigation at the time of the crime and later presented at this inquiry as fact. There's the fact that Sir Robert clearly had inadequate technical knowledge as I've shown, should have realised that and therefore should have sought unbiased guidance.
And the final and most serious element of the disgrace is that, being as you've shown that Sir Robert saw the inconclusiveness, he still found the guilt that the government wanted him to find.
As Woosh posted earlier, public inquiries find what they are set up to find by those who want that finding. Truth doesn't necessarily have any place.
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That will suit Zlatan just fine, he works on pretty much the same premise
"this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition. You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed. You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilised value. You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilised men and women. You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life. May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people."(33] ( from Wiki)
From the only person who probably knows the full story .He died a few hours later.. But I suppose he is lying, misinformed, biased and wrong.
Just Google
the subject. The whole story is in Wiki...but our resident experts all know better.
Its not comical OG. The polinium was traced on commercial flights in and out of Russia. Three attempts were made on his life, the last successfully. A friend of the victim campaigned for investigation and visited Russia. On his return he visited police on 4 occasions in fear of his life. He was found dead of multiple stab wounds in his flat. Suicide was assumed, coroner pronounced open verdict. ( suicide with 8 wounds ??)
You are fools dismissing what's going on.
I think its a case of burying heads in sand.
From the only person who probably knows the full story .He died a few hours later.. But I suppose he is lying, misinformed, biased and wrong.
Just Google
the subject. The whole story is in Wiki...but our resident experts all know better.
Its not comical OG. The polinium was traced on commercial flights in and out of Russia. Three attempts were made on his life, the last successfully. A friend of the victim campaigned for investigation and visited Russia. On his return he visited police on 4 occasions in fear of his life. He was found dead of multiple stab wounds in his flat. Suicide was assumed, coroner pronounced open verdict. ( suicide with 8 wounds ??)
You are fools dismissing what's going on.
I think its a case of burying heads in sand.
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D
Deleted member 4366
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Hmmm. Last I heard, they found traces of polonium on the aeroplane, so they knew exactly which seat the owner/carrier was sitting it. Surely, from there, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out who was involved!
Zlatan, your imagination is running riot again No one is dismissing what is going on, in fact quite the opposite. All we have done is ask that the proper legal and internationally agreed approach is used when this sort of thing happens.
Perhaps you should be asking the Government why it has let multiple cases they are aware of go by without a reaction?
There is little doubt that where Money is concerned justice goes out of the window and expedience rules.
You would do better to be asking why it is that huge sums of money are donated to the Tory Party, from the Russians here, and what they get in return as here
"British Prime Minister Theresa May is under pressure to return millions of dollars given by Russian oligarchs and their lobbyists to her ruling Conservative party. One of the biggest donors is the wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister, once nicknamed “Putin’s banker.”
May I remind you that this thread is supposed to be about Brexit, and not your personal Soap Box?
I haven't commented on the validity of Public Enquiries as I have very little knowledge of how thorough or otherwise they are, so there's no point in trying to draw me into stating a position either in favour of their findings or against.
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That's the nonsense I've already exposed:
Firstly the claim that where the polonium had been could be followed from its emission traces. That is scientific claptrap, it's impossible. As I've observed and Woosh has confirmed, the alpha emission particles have almost no penetrative ability, they cannot even penetrate the thinnest of tissue paper so leave no trace of where they have been. An alpha particle is essentially a simple helium atom, two protons and two neutrons, too light and bulky to penetrate. The only way it could be traced is if the material itself was carried externally in a leaky container that was dribbling out it's content all the way from Russia and into all places it was claimed to have been found.
Secondly the claim of it being traced on aircraft going back into Russia is even more silly since it would also necessitate the leaky container scenario. Remember, the whole world's annual production is under 100 grams so they would have hardly been likely to have enough to dribble it out continuously for days.
And why would they risk carrying incriminating evidence back when it could be safely dumped anywhere since it does no external harm? Once such a deed was done they'd dump any left and it's container. It has little value.
The whole cockeyed story is riddled with such nonsense.
I'm betting this was the political inspired conclusion behind the investigation's findings. Knowing that virtually all polonium 210 is produced in Russia before export of much of it, it was realised that blaming Russia was plausible. Therefore this was the story adopted and they decided to guild the lily with some additional seemingly firmer evidence. Thus the story was born about tracing it everywhere it had been, but that as I've shown was their crucial mistake. There are too many people like me who know the subject far too well scientifically and physically to be fooled by such falsehoods.
Russia could easily have done it, so could all the other people and countries they've upset, so could I.
But the "evidence" produced to try to prove it was Russia has no basis in fact. As Zlatan has observed, the public inquiry found that there was no proof in any of the evidential elements, only circumstantial possibilities that didn't rule out anyone else.
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