Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Insanity is the name of the day in the Express
"
Britain’s war chest REVEALED: May’s missiles and ships ready to take on Putin
AS THERESA May unveiled a series of Cold War-style sanctions against Russia today, the UK’s arsenal of missiles, ships and planes ready to take on Vladimir Putin’s regime should the need arise has been revealed."

Playing the fool is not a good idea

The Daily Mail has taken Fright!
"
Will Putin turn off the gas tap? Cold snap next week 'puts Britain at the mercy of Russian gas giants' as reserves in Europe reach record lows and Moscow vows to strike back at UK"

 

[tillson]

while the BBC is busy with the Russian story, do you know that TM has agreed terms with the EU on the transition deal ahead of EU27 meeting tomorrow?

Well there is a surprise.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here is a far more serious situation unique to the UK
"
Why did 10,000 more Britons die than usual in first seven weeks of 2018? Mystery over 12 percent rise in fatalities as experts say bad weather or flu are NOT to blame

• Officials acknowledged the 12 per cent rise but have not discussed causes
• They say it is unlikely that a single factor such as a virus is to blame

They say it is unlikely that a single factor such as a virus is to blame because the increase has not happened elsewhere in Europe or in Asia.

Instead, they suggest the cause will probably be far more complex, pointing to problems in NHS hospitals and social care.

Austerity is working, killing off the old and weak.

A reader comment
"
chantelly, Manchester, United Kingdom, about 6 hours ago

Quite simply there are more deaths here as we are now such a dense island!! So it will look like more are dying compared to elsewhere....
Amazingly this got 729 likes!
And another
"
Nigel PonsonbySmythe, None, United Kingdom, about 6 hours ago

12% rise in deaths and how many % rise in population and how healthy were the new additions to the population?

This one apparently can't read! but still got 1048 likes

Apparently whatever the cause of death is, a good defence against it is to be stupid

 

[oldgroaner]

Well there is a surprise.

"Spock raises one eyebrow"

 

[oldgroaner]

Meanwhile in the real world
"
Unilever has announced that it will be scrapping its London headquarters and make Rotterdam its legal home, dealing a sharp blow to Britain’s status as a European business hub ahead of Brexit.

The consumer good giant, which is the UK’s third largest company, on Thursday said that it was shaking up its corporate structure. Under the changes the company will operate three divisions. Its beauty and personal care division and its home care division will be based in London, while its foods and refreshment division will be based in Rotterdam.

It said that it also intends to simplify from its current structure of being two legal entities, transforming into one legal entity that will be incorporated in the Netherlands.

 

[oldgroaner]

I will point out an Elephant in the room since no one else has.
Someone has committed an act of war on British soil with a nerve agent.

Assume for the sake of argument it wasn't Russia, simply wiping out old dissidents and double agents, but some organisation with an even more sinister intent?

What would a terrorist organisation, or state, do with such a weapon,
If stirring up trouble doesn't gain the expected result, what next?

What is to stop this being done to a water supply let's say?
Trident won't protect us will it? as we cannot say with any certainty other than a wish to point the finger, who done it!

And if Putin turns off the gas, and there is a cold snap, how many of our elderly and poor are we prepared to allow to die as a result of a knee jerk reaction by the Government?

 

[tillson]

Apparently, there is a formal protocol under The Chemical Weapons Convention (you know, the one which Myra Hindley is claiming that Russia has broken), which gives the recipient a 10 day period to respond, once a formal request for an explanation has been received. Russia are saying that if this protocol is followed, they will comply.

So why is she bouncing around with her drawers in a twist, not making a formal request under the convention, imposing her own deadline and announcing sanctions?

I also see that she has also stated that, “Russian Crime Bosses will now feel the full force of the law.” So I presume that up until Tuesday of this week, they had been turning a blind eye? Maybe they had since the Tory party have been veraciously gobbling up money donated by wealthy Russians. I bet the “Internet Giants” are giving a sigh of relief.

I don’t think that I am naive, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of proof of Russia’s involvement. In this country, we are supposed to pride ourselves on the fairness of our justice system. Our standards are, beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters and a lower, balance of probability for civil cases.

In Salisbury, we have a nerve agent that Russia developed, but one which can be produced from unrestricted ingredients, if in possession of the knowledge. How many people have or had the knowledge? Where are they now? Did they pass the knowledge on, either for money or political purposes? It is also a substance that is likely to have been available in areas of the world which Russia no longer control, so was every micro-gram accounted for as each area fell out of Russian control? I don’t think this even reaches the balance of probability standard, and there certainly isn’t enough evidence to accuse Russia, convict Russia and to then pass sentence in front of the entire world, yet this is exactly what Myra Hindley has done. I think Woosh highlighted why this has happened in his post above. Expect to see more distraction techniques deployed in the coming weeks as she attempts to bury her inadequacies.

If the same burden of proof had been attached to the MP’s expenses scandal, the HoC would have been cleansed.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I will point out an Elephant in the room since no one else has.
Someone has committed an act of war on British soil with a nerve agent.

Assume for the sake of argument it wasn't Russia, simply wiping out old dissidents and double agents, but some organisation with an even more sinister intent?

What would a terrorist organisation, or state, do with such a weapon,
If stirring up trouble doesn't gain the expected result, what next?

What is to stop this being done to a water supply let's say?
Trident won't protect us will it? as we cannot say with any certainty other than a wish to point the finger, who done it!

And if Putin turns off the gas, and there is a cold snap, how many of our elderly and poor are we prepared to allow to die as a result of a knee jerk reaction by the Government?

My bet is on S.P.E.C.T.R.E. or maybe Dr. Evil?

 

[Woosh]

I don’t think that I am naive, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of proof of Russia’s involvement. In this country, we are supposed to pride ourselves on the fairness of our justice system. Our standards are, beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters and a lower, balance of probability for civil cases.

VX lethal dose is 10 milligrams, can act within 30 seconds and kill in 2 minutes through asphyxiation. Countries can keep samples, pharmaceutical companies and research labs are allowed to keep samples, total up to 22kgs before breaching the convention. That's enough to kill 2 million people.
Kim's brother was killed by VX, the woman who gave it to him did not suffer much ill effects.

 

[oldgroaner]

My bet is on S.P.E.C.T.R.E. or maybe Dr. Evil?

You're a big help with these insight's
Are you setting up in competition with Zlatan?

 

[oldgroaner]

Apparently, there is a formal protocol under The Chemical Weapons Convention (you know, the one which Myra Hindley is claiming that Russia has broken), which gives the recipient a 10 day period to respond, once a formal request for an explanation has been received. Russia are saying that if this protocol is followed, they will comply.

So why is she bouncing around with her drawers in a twist, not making a formal request under the convention, imposing her own deadline and announcing sanctions?

I also see that she has also stated that, “Russian Crime Bosses will now feel the full force of the law.” So I presume that up until Tuesday of this week, they had been turning a blind eye? Maybe they had since the Tory party have been veraciously gobbling up money donated by wealthy Russians. I bet the “Internet Giants” are giving a sigh of relief.

I don’t think that I am naive, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of proof of Russia’s involvement. In this country, we are supposed to pride ourselves on the fairness of our justice system. Our standards are, beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters and a lower, balance of probability for civil cases.

In Salisbury, we have a nerve agent that Russia developed, but one which can be produced from unrestricted ingredients, if in possession of the knowledge. How many people have or had the knowledge? Where are they now? Did they pass the knowledge on, either for money or political purposes? It is also a substance that is likely to have been available in areas of the world which Russia no longer control, so was every micro-gram accounted for as each area fell out of Russian control? I don’t think this even reaches the balance of probability standard, and there certainly isn’t enough evidence to accuse Russia, convict Russia and to then pass sentence in front of the entire world, yet this is exactly what Myra Hindley has done. I think Woosh highlighted why this has happened in his post above. Expect to see more distraction techniques deployed in the coming weeks as she attempts to bury her inadequacies.

If the same burden of proof had been attached to the MP’s expenses scandal, the HoC would have been cleansed.

We know why, don't we? from her point of view it's the equivalent of a "Get out of Jail Free" card in Monopoly, and she has already played a blinder in sneaking an agreement with the EU through under the Radar using it!

 

[oldgroaner]

VX lethal dose is 10 milligrams, can act within 30 seconds and kill in 2 minutes through asphyxiation. Countries can keep samples, pharmaceutical companies and research labs are allowed to keep samples, total up to 22kgs before breaching the convention. That's enough to kill 2 million people.
Kim's brother was killed by VX, the woman who gave it to him did not suffer much ill effects.

The agent used was a poor specimen compared to that wasn't it?

 

[oldgroaner]

Ask yourself a simple question, imagining yourself to be in Putin's shoes.
If you want to kill ex spies,what would be the agent of choice

1. A Russian made type
2. One of American Manufacture.

Undoubtedly the Russians will have the capability of doing just that.
As no doubt have the Chinese and North Koreans.

Then ask yourself even it they did use an American nerve agent, or for that matter the Americans did, or some other state, in a "False Flag" op.
Who would TM blame?

 

[anotherkiwi]

TM: I need a smoke screen, quick!
MI5: We could knock off a Russian spy that defected?
TM: That will do nicely.
MI5: Russian poison or American Ma'am?
TM: The Donald has been getting up my nose lately but lets go for Russian shall we?
...
Profit!

 

[Woosh]

The agent used was a poor specimen compared to that wasn't it?

I wouldn't describe it as weapon grade because of of the apparent lack of a military grade delivery system.

 

[oldtom]

Apparently, there is a formal protocol under The Chemical Weapons Convention (you know, the one which Myra Hindley is claiming that Russia has broken), which gives the recipient a 10 day period to respond, once a formal request for an explanation has been received. Russia are saying that if this protocol is followed, they will comply.

So why is she bouncing around with her drawers in a twist, not making a formal request under the convention, imposing her own deadline and announcing sanctions?

I also see that she has also stated that, “Russian Crime Bosses will now feel the full force of the law.” So I presume that up until Tuesday of this week, they had been turning a blind eye? Maybe they had since the Tory party have been veraciously gobbling up money donated by wealthy Russians. I bet the “Internet Giants” are giving a sigh of relief.

I don’t think that I am naive, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of proof of Russia’s involvement. In this country, we are supposed to pride ourselves on the fairness of our justice system. Our standards are, beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters and a lower, balance of probability for civil cases.

In Salisbury, we have a nerve agent that Russia developed, but one which can be produced from unrestricted ingredients, if in possession of the knowledge. How many people have or had the knowledge? Where are they now? Did they pass the knowledge on, either for money or political purposes? It is also a substance that is likely to have been available in areas of the world which Russia no longer control, so was every micro-gram accounted for as each area fell out of Russian control? I don’t think this even reaches the balance of probability standard, and there certainly isn’t enough evidence to accuse Russia, convict Russia and to then pass sentence in front of the entire world, yet this is exactly what Myra Hindley has done. I think Woosh highlighted why this has happened in his post above. Expect to see more distraction techniques deployed in the coming weeks as she attempts to bury her inadequacies.

If the same burden of proof had been attached to the MP’s expenses scandal, the HoC would have been cleansed.

Excellent post! Ten out of ten for that one, particularly as this thread is supposed to be based on facts. It seems like Mrs Maybe doesn't read these pages or she would understand how stupid she now appears and perhaps desist from challenging the guy who runs the Red Army to a fight.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Here is a far more serious situation unique to the UK
"
Why did 10,000 more Britons die than usual in first seven weeks of 2018? Mystery over 12 percent rise in fatalities as experts say bad weather or flu are NOT to blame

• Officials acknowledged the 12 per cent rise but have not discussed causes
• They say it is unlikely that a single factor such as a virus is to blame

They say it is unlikely that a single factor such as a virus is to blame because the increase has not happened elsewhere in Europe or in Asia.

Instead, they suggest the cause will probably be far more complex, pointing to problems in NHS hospitals and social care.

Austerity is working, killing off the old and weak.

A reader comment
"
chantelly, Manchester, United Kingdom, about 6 hours ago

Quite simply there are more deaths here as we are now such a dense island!! So it will look like more are dying compared to elsewhere....
Amazingly this got 729 likes!
And another
"
Nigel PonsonbySmythe, None, United Kingdom, about 6 hours ago

12% rise in deaths and how many % rise in population and how healthy were the new additions to the population?

This one apparently can't read! but still got 1048 likes

Apparently whatever the cause of death is, a good defence against it is to be stupid

You should be fine for years OG..

 

[Zlatan]

Apparently, there is a formal protocol under The Chemical Weapons Convention (you know, the one which Myra Hindley is claiming that Russia has broken), which gives the recipient a 10 day period to respond, once a formal request for an explanation has been received. Russia are saying that if this protocol is followed, they will comply.

So why is she bouncing around with her drawers in a twist, not making a formal request under the convention, imposing her own deadline and announcing sanctions?

I also see that she has also stated that, “Russian Crime Bosses will now feel the full force of the law.” So I presume that up until Tuesday of this week, they had been turning a blind eye? Maybe they had since the Tory party have been veraciously gobbling up money donated by wealthy Russians. I bet the “Internet Giants” are giving a sigh of relief.

I don’t think that I am naive, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of proof of Russia’s involvement. In this country, we are supposed to pride ourselves on the fairness of our justice system. Our standards are, beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters and a lower, balance of probability for civil cases.

In Salisbury, we have a nerve agent that Russia developed, but one which can be produced from unrestricted ingredients, if in possession of the knowledge. How many people have or had the knowledge? Where are they now? Did they pass the knowledge on, either for money or political purposes? It is also a substance that is likely to have been available in areas of the world which Russia no longer control, so was every micro-gram accounted for as each area fell out of Russian control? I don’t think this even reaches the balance of probability standard, and there certainly isn’t enough evidence to accuse Russia, convict Russia and to then pass sentence in front of the entire world, yet this is exactly what Myra Hindley has done. I think Woosh highlighted why this has happened in his post above. Expect to see more distraction techniques deployed in the coming weeks as she attempts to bury her inadequacies.

If the same burden of proof had been attached to the MP’s expenses scandal, the HoC would have been cleansed.

Perhaps EU or remainers are responsible...demonstrating how we need EU ???

This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine. Some of you, perhaps, have already heard what it contains but I would just like to read it to you: " ... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again."[3]

Putin is no more truthful than Hitler.

 

[oldtom]

Another shambles of a performance of 'Prime Ministership' at the despatch box!

I squirm every time I watch this apology for a Prime Minister attempt to speak to the house, having to think on her feet because she can't answer a question:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1738192196201909

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Some of the ramblings appearing of late in this thread are too ridiculous for words:



Tom