Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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blessing or not, if their tax plan is not credible, they won't get that many middle ground taxpaying, slightly better than the JAMs (those that earn near the high rate, so not affected by their last tax plan) votes - without which, labour will stay on the opposition benches.
We'll see, as I've previously commented, the public will get so sick of the 38 years and increasing term of Conservative and pseudo conservative rule that Labour could be elected by default.

Not so much Labour winning, more the Tories losing to leave Labour in power.
.
 

Woosh

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Not so much Labour winning, more the Tories losing to leave Labour in power
I believe that it's a wrong tactic for the left to attack Blair on the basis of his involvement in the Iraq war.
The left needs Blair to attract the middle ground voters.
In order to win power, you need to carry a substantial chunk of the middle ground votes.
 

flecc

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Now PSA who took over GM in Europe, including Vauxhall, have announced another 260 jobs going from the Ellesmere Port plant. That's on top of 400 lost a month or so ago.

I'm sure that's part of what I forecast, PSA intending to wind down and shut Vauxhall in Britain since they have so much spare capacity within the EU. In any case mainstream Vauxhalls are only rebadged Opels and that's also PSA owned in Germany and other EU countries.
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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I believe that it's a wrong tactic for the left to attack Blair on the basis of his involvement in the Iraq war.
The left needs Blair to attract the middle ground voters.
In order to win power, you need to carry a substantial chunk of the middle ground votes.
I wholeheartedly agree with this but can we ever see either rest of Labour party and more importantly the voting public accepting Blair back. What Labour should do is out Blair completely and replace him with a,Blair Mk 2...( a la Macron) Think they,d walk into power then...once in power they could go deeper shade of red.
The extreme left trying to force the issue are banging their heads against a wall.
The whole idea about getting in power is getting your stance and policies to match the wishes of the majority of voters. Trying to tell voters to change views to match what you offer is completely wrong...no matter how right, moral, and decent the party followers think they are. If anything the hard approach by some on here makes matters worse. It polarises voters opinions.
Labour policies need to centralise..doesnt matter under who, as long as its not Blair ( IMHO)
 
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Zlatan

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We'll see, as I've previously commented, the public will get so sick of the 38 years and increasing term of Conservative and pseudo conservative rule that Labour could be elected by default.

Not so much Labour winning, more the Tories losing to leave Labour in power.
.
And enter no 10 with a set of policies and manifesto the majority do not want. Isn't that the end of democracy Flecc ? At least Brexit got 52% of voters support.
 

Woosh

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and more importantly the voting public accepting Blair back.
there is no need to give Blair any active role, just don't give ammunition to the tory press to claim that Labour is divided.
 

Zlatan

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there is no need to give Blair any active role, just don't give ammunition to the tory press to claim that Labour is divided.
Its not Blair labour need, its what he is saying and his policies. Labour party simply is divided, but then again so are Tories.. The cat is out the bag now...Labour need to unite under a more ( not totally) central leader..
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mr Hammond is not a public sector worker. He is a ruler of the British people
Most of your piece is correct 'Danidl' but I disagree with your assertion that Hammond, your choice of example, is not a public sector worker. It is of the utmost importance that everyone understands that all MPs are very much public servants.

The primary role as member of parliament for a constituency is to represent the views of those people who elected the member to Westminster, (no easy task at times). Within that remit, it is generally accepted that there is a considerable degree of latitude for the member as parliament is a constant work in progress and many items of business can change daily in such ways as to require MPs to think on their feet about how best they can represent their constituents while staying true to the personal and political values they demonstrated prior to winning the parliamentary seat.

Given the uncomfortable relationship historically between royalty and parliament, the one stand-out feature which remains ever-present is that British citizens are ruled by the monarchy and no parliamentary member can be deemed to be a ruler. The function of parliament is to manage (govern) the affairs of the nation on behalf of both the crown and the common people.

Without an expressive written constitution or bill of rights, the UK and its people must rely on a variety of historic documents, not least the Magna Carta, to present a form of entitlement which may be upheld by the courts and churches, safeguarding the common man from abuse by the privileged class or indeed anyone else.

As members of the EU, British citizens have the benefit of pan-European safeguards contained within the European Convention on Human Rights. Sadly, many of those who wish to see the UK leave the EU have indicated strongly that we should no longer adhere to that legislation. That should ring alarm bells with all decent citizens!

Tom
 
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Danidl

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Most of your piece is correct 'Danidl' but I disagree with your assertion that Hammond, your choice of example, is not a public sector worker. It is of the utmost importance that everyone understands that all MPs are very much public servants.

The primary role as member of parliament for a constituency is to represent the views of those people who elected the member to Westminster, (no easy task at times). Within that remit, it is generally accepted that there is a considerable degree of latitude for the member as parliament is a constant work in progress and many items of business can change daily in such ways as to require MPs to think on their feet about how best they can represent their constituents while staying true to the personal and political values they demonstrated prior to winning the parliamentary seat.

Given the uncomfortable relationship historically between royalty and parliament, the one stand-out feature which remains ever-present is that British citizens are ruled by the monarchy and no parliamentary member can be deemed to be a ruler. The function of parliament is to manage (govern) the affairs of the nation on behalf of both the crown and the common people.

Without an expressive written constitution or bill of rights, the UK and its people must rely on a variety of historic documents, not least the Magna Carta, to present a form of entitlement which may be upheld by the courts and churches, safeguarding the common man from abuse by the privileged class or indeed anyone else.

As members of the EU, British citizens have the benefit of pan-European safeguards contained within the European Convention on Human Rights. Sadly, many of those who wish to see the UK leave the EU have indicated strongly that we should no longer adhere to that legislation. That should ring alarm bells with all decent citizens!

Tom
Ok OT I take your correcting . I was extrapolating from my own experience of parliamentary democracy , one which does not make allowance for a ruling class based on accident of birth.
 
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SHAN

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Some good points. It is confusing that so many prominent socialist stock pile huge sums of personal wealth. Ken Loach who you mention above is estimated to have trousered about £4 000 000. That other socialist Lilly Allen, the one who occasionally crosses the helicopter-lanes of London as she “Jet Rangers” over to France in order to be filmed and photographed crying at pretend refugees, is another. £15 000 000 invested in, amongst other things, property? Couldn’t Liiy “Socialist” Allen house some “refugees” in one of her properties instead of making an income off it, adding to her £15 000 000? It really is indefensible for a socialist.

What about sharing the wealth Ken & Lilly? Surely they don’t need all that cheese and property?

They can be forgiven though, they are greedy humans like most of us. It’s just they were given an extra dollop of hypocrisy when they were made.
The reason the press takes so much notice of the above hypocrite's is because of their fame. Some unknown bod plastered on their pages wouldn't sell. Oh and you forgot to include that **** Brand.
 

anotherkiwi

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Now PSA who took over GM in Europe, including Vauxhall, have announced another 260 jobs going from the Ellesmere Port plant. That's on top of 400 lost a month or so ago.

I'm sure that's part of what I forecast, PSA intending to wind down and shut Vauxhall in Britain since they have so much spare capacity within the EU. In any case mainstream Vauxhalls are only rebadged Opels and that's also PSA owned in Germany and other EU countries.
.
They have been laying off people at Opel too IIRC...
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The best summation of yesterday's events in Westminster that I have read or heard in the media is this from the web blogger, AAV:

Theresa May's shambolic cabinet reshuffle:

1. Starts off by promoting the wrong person (the spectacularly inept Chris Grayling) to party chairman, then hastily rescinds the appointment!

2. Appoints the intended person (Brandon Lewis) to party chairman, but then has to hastily delete all the social media posts announcing the appointment because of a glaring spelling error!

3. Leaves the three incompetent and dishonest Brexiteer charlatans (Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis) in position because any attempt to remove them would cause a rebellion by the highly secretive hard-right Tory Brexiteer cabal (European Research Group) who dictate Theresa May's every move on Brexit.

4. Tries to remove the loathed Jeremy Hunt as Health Secretary, but he's unwilling to quit, and May is too weak to force him out, so she ends up simply renaming the health ministry instead!

5. Greg Clark also refuses to be forced out of his role as Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, so he stays. Who is actually in charge of this government?

6. Promotes the hapless Claire Perry to minister of state at the department for business, energy and industrial strategy. Who better to help oversee Britain's industrial strategy than a woman so economically illiterate that she claimed that a debt and a deficit are "the same thing"!

7. Appointing David Gauke as Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary makes him the fifth person to hold the role since 2015 (including the shockingly incompetent Chris Grayling). Five different ministers in the space of three years just goes to show how much contempt the Tories have for the legal system.

8. Allowing the serial failure Chris Grayling to remain as transport minister (despite the latest scandal over his £multi-billion bailout of the Virgin/Stagecoach franchise on the East Coast Mainline) is yet another demonstration of the abject contempt the Tories have towards public transport and public transport users too.

9. Trying to move one of the only vaguely competent Tory ministers (Justine Greening) from education to the DWP results in failure as Greening quits government altogether, leaving Theresa May scrambling to find someone else to do the job. How come the male cabinet ministers get to keep their jobs if they refuse to do as Theresa May wants, but Justine Greening doesn't?

10. Replacing Greening with Damian Hinds is an almost inexplicable move. The only possible explanation for this is that it's a sop to the hard-right of the Tory party who want another member of the Oxford PPE old boys club in government, rather than the socially liberal and progressive (by Tory standards at least) Justine Greening.

11. Scrabbling around for someone to take up the DWP role that Justine Greening refused, May decides on the grotesque figure of Esther McVey. McVey is a vile compassionless woman who was booted out of Wirral West by the electorate in 2015 only to be handed the Tory safe seat of Tatton and a ticket back into government in 2017. The appointment of Iain Duncan Smith's callous henchwoman to destroy the lives of the most vulnerable people in society is a clear statement that Theresa May is determined to form the nastiest and most regressive cabinet Britain has suffered ever since universal suffrage.

The incredible thing about this shambolic reshuffle was that it was billed as Theresa May's big chance to win some positive headlines and reassert some authority over the Tory party, but she's ended up overseeing an absolute farce and demonstrating that she's so weak that she lets her incompetent ministers talk her out of sacking them, but she sacks one of her only vaguely competent ministers because that's what her hard-right puppet masters wanted.

Just like with her vanity election last year, May has taken a fairly neutral situation and turned it to her own disadvantage. Her capacity for directionless incompetence is extraordinary.

I think that explains things pretty well. May has reinforced my view that she is the most incompetent PM of my lifetime. The country is floundering thanks to this rudderless government and we now have the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

Just to recap briefly on 'Brexit':

26239551_1056958631113322_2499767652795337972_n.jpg

Tom
 
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SHAN

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The best summation of yesterday's events in Westminster that I have read or heard in the media is this from the web blogger, AAV:

Theresa May's shambolic cabinet reshuffle:

1. Starts off by promoting the wrong person (the spectacularly inept Chris Grayling) to party chairman, then hastily rescinds the appointment!

2. Appoints the intended person (Brandon Lewis) to party chairman, but then has to hastily delete all the social media posts announcing the appointment because of a glaring spelling error!

3. Leaves the three incompetent and dishonest Brexiteer charlatans (Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis) in position because any attempt to remove them would cause a rebellion by the highly secretive hard-right Tory Brexiteer cabal (European Research Group) who dictate Theresa May's every move on Brexit.

4. Tries to remove the loathed Jeremy Hunt as Health Secretary, but he's unwilling to quit, and May is too weak to force him out, so she ends up simply renaming the health ministry instead!

5. Greg Clark also refuses to be forced out of his role as Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, so he stays. Who is actually in charge of this government?

6. Promotes the hapless Claire Perry to minister of state at the department for business, energy and industrial strategy. Who better to help oversee Britain's industrial strategy than a woman so economically illiterate that she claimed that a debt and a deficit are "the same thing"!

7. Appointing David Gauke as Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary makes him the fifth person to hold the role since 2015 (including the shockingly incompetent Chris Grayling). Five different ministers in the space of three years just goes to show how much contempt the Tories have for the legal system.

8. Allowing the serial failure Chris Grayling to remain as transport minister (despite the latest scandal over his £multi-billion bailout of the Virgin/Stagecoach franchise on the East Coast Mainline) is yet another demonstration of the abject contempt the Tories have towards public transport and public transport users too.

9. Trying to move one of the only vaguely competent Tory ministers (Justine Greening) from education to the DWP results in failure as Greening quits government altogether, leaving Theresa May scrambling to find someone else to do the job. How come the male cabinet ministers get to keep their jobs if they refuse to do as Theresa May wants, but Justine Greening doesn't?

10. Replacing Greening with Damian Hinds is an almost inexplicable move. The only possible explanation for this is that it's a sop to the hard-right of the Tory party who want another member of the Oxford PPE old boys club in government, rather than the socially liberal and progressive (by Tory standards at least) Justine Greening.

11. Scrabbling around for someone to take up the DWP role that Justine Greening refused, May decides on the grotesque figure of Esther McVey. McVey is a vile compassionless woman who was booted out of Wirral West by the electorate in 2015 only to be handed the Tory safe seat of Tatton and a ticket back into government in 2017. The appointment of Iain Duncan Smith's callous henchwoman to destroy the lives of the most vulnerable people in society is a clear statement that Theresa May is determined to form the nastiest and most regressive cabinet Britain has suffered ever since universal suffrage.

The incredible thing about this shambolic reshuffle was that it was billed as Theresa May's big chance to win some positive headlines and reassert some authority over the Tory party, but she's ended up overseeing an absolute farce and demonstrating that she's so weak that she lets her incompetent ministers talk her out of sacking them, but she sacks one of her only vaguely competent ministers because that's what her hard-right puppet masters wanted.

Just like with her vanity election last year, May has taken a fairly neutral situation and turned it to her own disadvantage. Her capacity for directionless incompetence is extraordinary.

I think that explains things pretty well. May has reinforced my view that she is the most incompetent PM of my lifetime. The country is floundering thanks to this rudderless government and we now have the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

Just to recap briefly on 'Brexit':

View attachment 22943

Tom
The McDonald's nearest to me are looking for staff, mind you, you'd probably get the wrong order.
 
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Woosh

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found in the FT this morning:

'Brexit' is rapidly ceasing to be a noun and becoming an adjective, as in 'I'm Brexit at maths' (or negotiating).
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Ha ha ha ha.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42617922

Why was this reactionary imbecile picked for the job in the first place ? The whole political show is wrong from head to toe.
Quote mentions he deleted upto 40,000 tweets...when do people do their jobs nowadays ? Seems everybody is tweeting, posting, trending , porning or deleting their history or inappropriate comments rather than working.
We should have social media holidays where the lot ( including this) is shut down for a few weeks. Reckon our poor productivity might increase and we,d all be slightly more satisfied with our lot...

Tom
For arguments sake lets assume everything you,ve posted in last few days is correct, all of it. Now what do you want to happen ? Which party in charge and run by whom ? What policies do you want implemented ? Who do you want appointing ? What's your view on CT tax, business Tax, Income Tax ,IHT, Austerity ? What's your view on Student loans; education funding, NHS funding? How do we stop all your grievences? Tell us..

Suggesting a club sacks its manager is fine if there happens to be a Jose or Benitez or Pep ready to take over...
 
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SHAN

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Quote mentions he deleted upto 40,000 tweets...when do people do their jobs nowadays ? Seems everybody is tweeting, posting, trending , porning or deleting their history or inappropriate comments rather than working.
We should have social media holidays where the lot ( including this) is shut down for a few weeks. Reckon our poor productivity might increase and we,d all be slightly more satisfied with our lot...
A friends son applied for a job and was told at interview that his "social media" check would be part of whether or not he was accepted. Obviously this doesn't apply to politics. I proudly signed the petition to call for that unsavory @r$e Young to be removed. After reading some of his elitist incendiary tweets, and listened to those who defended him, how glad I am to live on top of a mountain and not be surrounded by these morons.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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30,511
Quote mentions he deleted upto 40,000 tweets...when do people do their jobs nowadays ? Seems everybody is tweeting, posting, trending , porning or deleting their history or inappropriate comments rather than working.
We should have social media holidays where the lot ( including this) is shut down for a few weeks. Reckon our poor productivity might increase and we'd all be slightly more satisfied with our lot...
Well said Zlatan. It's been very noticeable over the whole life of this forum that the vast majority of posting takes place between 9am and 5pm Mondays to Fridays, business hours.

I'm quite sure this will be true across most internet forums.

Considering the sheer scale of total posting, it's likely companies could usefully reduce the number of staff they are employing, improving on our low UK productivity.
.
 

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