Brexit, for once some facts.

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
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Of course employers are responsible for many aspects of an employee's welfare while they are working for them. When employers fall short they even can find themselves in court.

The "strange world" I live in included my being an employer for decades, and thankfully for my employees I was one who took his responsibilities seriously, both in care for my employees and making the businesses profitable.

You say "How does that work"? It works because the evident caring and decency is not only good for the employees but how they feel about their employment conditions being very good for profits as well.
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If an employer looks after an employees welfare, the benefits to the employer are repaid many times over. This principle seems to have been totally lost for some reason. A loyal, dedicated and trustworthy employee is so valuable to a business, but screwing them creares resentment which in turn costs the business dearly.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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If an employer looks after an employees welfare, the benefits to the employer are repaid many times over. This principle seems to have been totally lost for some reason. A loyal, dedicated and trustworthy employee is so valuable to a business, but screwing them creares resentment which in turn costs the business dearly.
Absolutely right , tillson!
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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ah, we currently get meat from Argentina already. But your saying it'll be cheaper, and you think that'll be good for our beef farmers in the UK?
That nice Mr Fox will get them to agree to sell it to us half price and no doubt some foreign company will buy up all the farms that go bust, and find a worthless high profit crop to grow briefly till the land is ruined.

Standard Tory policy , Slash and Burn, sell and destroy, over a thousand years of careful land husbandry destroyed to fill some parasite's offshore bank account.

They behave like back street Second hand car sales Spivs.
Which is after all what they are
Con men and women.
 
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SHAN

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Oct 13, 2017
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it could be in their interests to use them as showrooms for their goods.
This is a very valid point. The one thing, from a consumerist point of view, that the "net" has brought us is an almost infinite mind boggling choice, which can be ordered from just about anywhere a mobile phone will operate. No being held up in traffic jams, no queuing at tills or tolerating poor service. In agree with the running shoes, but if you were ordering an identical pair where would you go ? I won't buy a bike online. Mainly because I have an excellent local family owned business who do genuinely take care of their customers, and on the two occasions I have bought on line, both were disasters.
 
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SHAN

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ah, we currently get meat from Argentina already. But your saying it'll be cheaper, and you think that'll be good for our beef farmers in the UK?
The agricultural industry in the UK has been decimated. The "herd" didn't fully recover after the last foot and mouth outbreak. The UK, Scotland in particular, was the worlds most efficient dairy producer. Leaving the EU, should be a golden opportunity to rebuild the agricultural industry at home. Importing meat from Argentina when you are more than capable of producing your own doesn't make sense. With regards to food safety, at one period every UK slaughterhouse had an in-house government inspector present, which may have averted the recent horse meat scandal, had this practice continued. As the country is leaving the EU, it would be nice to hear our leaders encouraging home grown production. High tech industries and high finance may be good, but a population still has to eat. Vehicle pollution laws are becoming more and more stringent, so why drum up unnecessary ocean going trade with transport vessels that are some of the worst pollutants available.
 

Georgew

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Apr 13, 2016
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The agricultural industry in the UK has been decimated. The "herd" didn't fully recover after the last foot and mouth outbreak. The UK, Scotland in particular, was the worlds most efficient dairy producer. Leaving the EU, should be a golden opportunity to rebuild the agricultural industry at home. Importing meat from Argentina when you are more than capable of producing your own doesn't make sense. With regards to food safety, at one period every UK slaughterhouse had an in-house government inspector present, which may have averted the recent horse meat scandal, had this practice continued. As the country is leaving the EU, it would be nice to hear our leaders encouraging home grown production. High tech industries and high finance may be good, but a population still has to eat. Vehicle pollution laws are becoming more and more stringent, so why drum up unnecessary ocean going trade with transport vessels that are some of the worst pollutants available.
Well... talk of being unduly optimistic...
The EU already gives the UK funds using its "Less favourable area scheme" to subsidise UK agriculture. Scotland which has 85% of its agricultural land classified as "Less favourable" receives only 16% of this money.....so is it reasonable to suppose that following Brexit the UK Government will improve on this?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Well... talk of being unduly optimistic...
The EU already gives the UK funds using its "Less favourable area scheme" to subsidise UK agriculture. Scotland which has 85% of its agricultural land classified as "Less favourable" receives only 16% of this money.....so is it reasonable to suppose that following Brexit the UK Government will improve on this?
It was our government economising that resulted in vets disappearing from many abbatoirs and also led to the BSE crisis when they reduced the required heat treatment temperature for meat entering the animal feed part of the food chain.

No EU involved in those, so I agree that I can't see any improvements once out of the EU, more likely a marked worsening, especially if the present crowd are in government.
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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That's not the car I was saying was a cool car. That's a link to a bunch of Mini Coopers that are nothing like the one I have. Dear oh dear.
Oh sure, yours is Gold plated, come off it

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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The agricultural industry in the UK has been decimated. The "herd" didn't fully recover after the last foot and mouth outbreak. The UK, Scotland in particular, was the worlds most efficient dairy producer. Leaving the EU, should be a golden opportunity to rebuild the agricultural industry at home. Importing meat from Argentina when you are more than capable of producing your own doesn't make sense. With regards to food safety, at one period every UK slaughterhouse had an in-house government inspector present, which may have averted the recent horse meat scandal, had this practice continued. As the country is leaving the EU, it would be nice to hear our leaders encouraging home grown production. High tech industries and high finance may be good, but a population still has to eat. Vehicle pollution laws are becoming more and more stringent, so why drum up unnecessary ocean going trade with transport vessels that are some of the worst pollutants available.
My understanding is that all animals intended for human consumption in Ireland are individually inspected by a registered vet prior to slaughter and samples taken post slaughter . Even DNA testing is done on on selected samples . Safety in the food chain is taken seriously in ireland Even with this level of audit and oversight fraud does occur . The horse meat in burgers which was fraud, was found by such testing .
Either Mr OK is ignorant of the requirements of public health, which is understandable if undesirable or he is deliberately twisting facts for argumentative purposes which is neither desirable or understandable.
In a global population of 7 billion we need to ensure public health standards. We live in a technological age and nobody can be expected to be on top of all the chemical agents, pathogens and other poisons so we need experts to protect us and to assume that a free market will do so is either so naive or complacent that one would need to be held in protective housing.
Is Mr OK aware that the USA is by an order of magnitude the most unsafe western world country for childbirth and perinatal death? .. for mother's and babies alike. This is a consequence of a free market.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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I've never expected anybody but myself to be responsible for my welfare. Where do you get these ideas? You expect the employer to be responsible for your welfare? Huh? How does that work? Nobody can be responsible for your welfare except yourself. Assuming you are an adult and of sane mind. What a strange world you seem to live in.
You do have a point, up to a point.. every adult is responsible for their own health and safety, AND has a duty of care towards others. When you assume responsibility for managing others , you also assume responsibility for their H&S. Why because they are no longer free agents, They are required to carry out your lawful wishes. They cannot be expected to know the hazards , unless they have been warned and advised about them. How would the plumber you employ know that you have sacks of radioactive ore stored in your shed, or the electrician that you have flooded the cellar in co2?
Anybody employed in a position of supervisor,sargent, manager, employer needs to know this . Any company employing supervisors will run programmes on their HR responsibilities.
There is a legal term "duty of care " and it dates back a long time.
 

SHAN

De-registered
Oct 13, 2017
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Well... talk of being unduly optimistic...
The EU already gives the UK funds using its "Less favourable area scheme" to subsidise UK agriculture. Scotland which has 85% of its agricultural land classified as "Less favourable" receives only 16% of this money.....so is it reasonable to suppose that following Brexit the UK Government will improve on this?
I've witnessed the steady decline first hand. There are many factors that have caused this. Frighteningly successive governments have left the country without fuel, or food security.
 
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shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
It was our government economising that resulted in vets disappearing from many abbatoirs and also led to the BSE crisis when they reduced the required heat treatment temperature for meat entering the animal feed part of the food chain.

No EU involved in those, so I agree that I can't see any improvements once out of the EU, more likely a marked worsening, especially if the present crowd are in government.
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?

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090731155530/http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/bse/controls-eradication/causes.html

latest reports of 600 degrees Celsius required as safe temperature.
 

SHAN

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Oct 13, 2017
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He's just a "wind up" merchant playing it for laughs.His Moniker should be "laughing Gas"not Oxygen, don't take him seriously,he's just having fun.
As I said previously in this thread, I take it as light hearted banter/discussion. A few " bods" on a bicycle forum aren't going to change world politics, but its always an interesting discussion to read others views. If someone wants to get "nasty" and behave like a wasp that's not my problem, I've had a lifetime of dealing with such, face to face. My device has an off switch. Carry on.:) ;)
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
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Oh sure, yours is Gold plated, come off it

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
You're just not seeing this are you. I said 'that's a cool car' with regards to a picture of a car I thought looked really cool. It was not a Mini. Get it? It was a completely different car. Just liked it so I said that's a cool car. OK so far?

In reply you sent in a link to a bunch of Mini Coopers with some disparaging comments. Now you're gone a step further and are suggesting said Mini Coopers would need to be Gold plated to elevate their value to around £3K.

I would humbly suggest that if you want to pick an argument with me then stick to things you know something about. The value of 04 Mini Coopers with an auto box, panoramic roof, HK music system, cruise control, FSMH in excellent nick - is obviously not one of those subjects.
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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ah, we currently get meat from Argentina already. But your saying it'll be cheaper, and you think that'll be good for our beef farmers in the UK?
Sounds like the argument people would give me in the 1970s trying to persuade me to buy a Norton or a Bonnie when there was no fricking way I was going to buy unreliable British bikes when the Yamaha's and other Jap bikes were WAY superior.

Just because its made in Britain means nothing to me. I am only interested in the price and the quality. Maybe we need to get rid of some of those farms - put something else up there (some nice houses might be a good idea so that our kids can live somewhere decent without paying a small fortune) - and get our meat from places that can produce it using less energy and resources (ie money).

This is called globalisation - it is what has lifted around 2b (billion) people out of poverty in the last 50 years and given us this cornucopia of riches we now experience in the UK. Long may it continue.
 

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