Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

The most important attribute when engaging in negotiations is an assumption of honesty, that what is said if meant and that the other party will keep to their word. . Mr Davis has squandered that. Even if the British parliament refuses to censure him and remove him as their negotiator, he now has zero credibility in Brussels.
The most charitable thing that may be said about him is that he misled his own parliament

Only true if what we see and hear overall is the truth.

For a while now I've had a deepening suspicion that we are all witnessing a charade, jointly performed by the UK and EU.

Just look back at the start point of the Brexit vote result. The Government didn't want that, the Opposition didn't want that, two of the four UK countries didn't want that, overwhelmingly Business didn't want that, the Bankers didn't want that, the EU didn't want that, and importantly the USA didn't want that, and they so often call our shots.

It wouldn't have taken more than a few moments thought by the EU council leadership and the UK government to realise that a solution was to go though the Brexit motions to play for time, intending to end up with a sham Brexit of some sort that could be unwound over time. A long added on transition period helps with that.

Note we aren't cancelling any EU legislation, just having a so-called Great Repeal Bill that incorporates all the EU regulations into UK law, very convenient if we want to end up remaining.
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[Kudoscycles]

What does corruption look like in British politics? If the bribe by the despicable tory thieves and liars to their despicable friends in NI isn't enough, they then allow David Davis to go unpunished for lying repeatedly to parliament:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/12/07/corruption-tories-on-brexit-committee-vote-down-contempt-of-parliament-proceedings-against-david-davis/

Tom

The only reason why Davis escaped censure by the house was that the Brexit committee is heavily weighted with Brexiters,they voted fully to keep their own man,otherwise they knew that if Davis had to resign it would set back hard Brexit.....if the vote was in parliament I think he would have had to go....he blatantly lied about the existence of the post Brexit reports....nobody will trust what he says henceforth.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

He seems to me a straight talking tory MP if such kind exists.
His boss is taken hostage by the hard brexiters in their party, she is stuck with what she promised them last year: out of the SM and CU. Now she will need the Daily Mail and the Sun to come to her rescue: we can pay £50 billions but can't pay the cost of no deal brexit.
I suggest she call Mr Murdoch as soon as possible.

What is the cost of a no deal Brexit? Davis's dept was meant to give us that info in these reports,was he lazy or incompetent or both?
He seems an expert at filibustering.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

What is the cost of a no deal Brexit? Davis's dept was meant to give us that info in these reports,was he lazy or incompetent or both?
He seems an expert at filibustering.
KudosDave

Why bother with reports is no Brexit is intended?

See my previous post.
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[Woosh]

What is the cost of a no deal Brexit? Davis's dept was meant to give us that info in these reports,was he lazy or incompetent or both?
He seems an expert at filibustering.
KudosDave

his boss is held hostage by the hard brexiters, if they ever get a whiff of his department working on costing out the cost of hard brexit, they'll string his boss PDQ.
When you see one of the hard brexiters on TV professing they stand right behind his boss, they do mean it. With their dagger ready.

 

[flecc]

When you see one of the hard brexiters on TV professing they stand right behind his boss, they do mean it. With their dagger ready.

I very much doubt that. The last election was a close thing for the party and they'll know if they risk forcing another prematurely, there's a good chance it will let Labour in.

They also now know that will mean customs union and a common market, and they certainly won't risk that.
.

 

[flecc]

The latest acknowledgement by the government is that there's not only no reports, they've also made no assessment at all of the effects post Brexit.

Once again that supports the suspicions I expressed in this post.

Why assess what isn't going to happen?
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[Woosh]

I very much doubt that. The last election was a close thing for the party and they'll know if they risk forcing another prematurely, there's a good chance it will let Labour in.

They also now know that will mean customs union and a common market, and they certainly won't risk that.
.

the hard brexiters are still calling the shots.
It's not as if there are not enough tory MPs wanting the top job, promising to getting out of the SM and CU. TM can only be PM as long as they still believe that she will deliver on her promises to them.
There is no guarantee that labour will gain majority in the next GE, the conservative may still retain the most seats in the HOC.

 

[SHAN]

Daily Mail and the Sun to come to her rescue:

Possibly Sooty will have a better answer. He does have a magic wand.

 

[flecc]

the hard brexiters are still calling the shots.

Agreed, but if it comes to the crunch I still don't think they'll risk losing power.

John Major changed their position for ever in 1993 when he openly challenged them, calling them in a public statement the party's bastards.

They couldn't get him out and he stayed in charge for four more years to the next election.

Ever since then it's known they have no real power and if they try to corner Theresa May, she could easily face them down.
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[Woosh]

John Major changed their position for ever in 1993 when he openly challenged them, calling them in a public statement the party's bastards.

he had to resign to call their bluff, then got quickly re-elected.
TM wouldn't dare to face them down unless Corbyn publicly backs her on brexit which is not going to happen. She's bound by her promises to them.
The best she could hope for is the electorate comes to prefer soft brexit by a clear majority or better still, a clear majority wants a second referendum, forcing the hard brexiters to face the facts.

 

[Woosh]

More people like the idea of a second referendum.

 

[oldtom]

More people like the idea of a second referendum.

Yes, the case is altered, (that happens to be the name of at least two pubs in Middlesex - well, it was when I lived there).

They have probably been reading this forum!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Surely no-one can disagree that this lying hist's behaviour is reprehensible. He should be sacked from his position with immediate effect.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1642048825816247

Tom

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I really can't believe we're watching this happen.

 

[flecc]

he had to resign to call their bluff, then got quickly re-elected.

Exactly, the hard liners couldn't get him out. Rees Mogg and co. are just pompous windbags with no real influence. He in particular is regarded as a joke by most MPs, listened to for the entertainment value.

She's bound by her promises to them.

Like David Davis's promises to show the reports and David Cameron's promise to allow a free vote on the fox hunting issue. Political promises are always worthless, given solely for temporal expedience.

Theresa May isn't stupid, she knows that with the poisoned chalice she was given, she's never going to end up in a prime ministerial hall of famous achievements. I doubt she'd be any more concerned about slipping out of the limelight than David Cameron was.

The start of Brexit was the surprise, even shock, of the referendum outcome, and I think there are going to be quite a few more unexpected surprises before the issue is put to bed.
.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the case is altered, (that happens to be the name of at least two pubs in Middlesex - well, it was when I lived there).

I did too, but there's no such county any more it was scrapped on 1st April 1965.

Not sure why that date was chosen, someone must have been hinting at something.
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[flecc]

Surely no-one can disagree that this lying hist's behaviour is reprehensible. He should be sacked from his position with immediate effect.

I really can't believe we're watching this happen.

.
Well, he was ultimately honest, I daresay that's how he'd see it.
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[Kudoscycles]

I still dont understand what regulatory alignment means,last week it was regulatory divergence,now I am told May will have a new name,cant remember what that is?
But what do they mean???
Anna Soubry and the EU seems to like them,Boris and Rees-Mogg dont like them,so I think it is near to soft Brexit .
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Anna Soubry and the EU seems to like them,Boris and Rees-Mogg dont like them,so I think it is near to soft Brexit .
KudosDave

Soft enough to eventually evolve into invisibility.

Long ago Dave you posted a number of times that you doubted Brexit would happen. I think you will be right eventually, since I think we will gradually over time lose any sign of it ever being really in existence.

Brexit is just too difficult and impractical to achieve. Our UK governments can't even do the simple things like the routine of running the country. Achieving Brexit is far beyond their competence.
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