.. I am confused,..well that won't come as a surprise, but why was Threasa May armed with a suicide vest and pepper spray, has it anything to do with cabinet meetings?
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
brexit negotiations aren't going well, lets have a thwarted plot to distract attention. OK PM we are on the job!
Boris Gollum and Jackass Grease Moggy were at the same meeting perhaps?
And she wanted to make an offer they couldn't refuse?
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Keir Starmer said today that Labour will retain membership of single market and customs union after the transition period.
TM will now have to decide where she stands.
TM will now have to decide where she stands.
Davis was giving evidence to the Brexit committee,very badly....Benn was asking about the 50 plus Brexit impact assessments which Davis had previously stated were available.
Davis waffled about assessments not being meaningful until after the negotiations. A Tory minister asked whether Davis was lying or incompetent about the assessments.
Benn asked was their an assessment for the auto industry....Davis answered No.....banking....No.....aero industry....No Davis was starting to lose his cool,waffling wasn't working,you can always tell when Davis is nervous,he fiddles with his glasses.
At this moment the DUP are telling May what she needs to do to get them back on the governments side....bigger bribe,staying in the single market,Foster gets a new Strathberry,who knows.....tail wagging the dog.
How many strings attached to May the puppet?
KudosDave
Davis waffled about assessments not being meaningful until after the negotiations. A Tory minister asked whether Davis was lying or incompetent about the assessments.
Benn asked was their an assessment for the auto industry....Davis answered No.....banking....No.....aero industry....No Davis was starting to lose his cool,waffling wasn't working,you can always tell when Davis is nervous,he fiddles with his glasses.
At this moment the DUP are telling May what she needs to do to get them back on the governments side....bigger bribe,staying in the single market,Foster gets a new Strathberry,who knows.....tail wagging the dog.
How many strings attached to May the puppet?
KudosDave
Well I nearly fell off my chair.
Guess who said this:
Quitting the Brussels club will amount to a 'paradigm change' comparable with the biggest financial slump since the Depression of the 1930s.
&
Warns impact of Brexit on the UK economy could be as great as the 2008 CREDIT CRUNCH
Only David Davies... the man who is trying to sell this to us a positive.
and guess, who's reporting it... only the Daily Mail
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5151193/David-Davis-says-Brexit-impact-like-2008-crash.html#ixzz50TvcA0SD
Things are definitely shifting, again ... as predicted.
Guess who said this:
Quitting the Brussels club will amount to a 'paradigm change' comparable with the biggest financial slump since the Depression of the 1930s.
&
Warns impact of Brexit on the UK economy could be as great as the 2008 CREDIT CRUNCH
Only David Davies... the man who is trying to sell this to us a positive.
and guess, who's reporting it... only the Daily Mail
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5151193/David-Davis-says-Brexit-impact-like-2008-crash.html#ixzz50TvcA0SD
Things are definitely shifting, again ... as predicted.
It will be worse than that, since 2008 affected every country so we all slid down together.
Brexit will only affect us to any extent, so we go down while the rest of the world just carries on as usual.
.
I suspect there are no strings, but someone's hand works her from below which explains the pained expression.
Today's little nugget
"David Davis admits Government hasn't done an overall impact assessment on Brexit, contradicting indications previously given"
Ah well it does explain why he can't reveal the Documents doesn't it?
Time to put an end to all this nonsense
The man is a Danger and has been all along.
In the Independent
"MPs are also calling for Brexit Secretary David Davis to be held in contempt of Parliament for "misleading" MPs on the existence of a series of Brexit impact assessments. In a grilling by the Brexit Select Committee today, Mr Davis admitted the reports had not been done."
So in other words the Government is committed to a course of action that the outcome of which is a complete mystery to them?
Here is a big chance for our resident right wingers to offer a pragmatic reason for continuing with Brexit.
It is clear that the only people who have any clue as to the likely outcome are on the other side of the channel and our Government either couldn't be bothered to study where their policy was going, or more likely did know but didn't want any evidence to exist to prove it.
And the alternative? the Raving lunatic right wing of the Tory Party want to go for Hard Brexit with even less idea of what will happen, but they don't give a toss about that but think of all the money they can screw the Public for in the process of selling off the State.
"David Davis admits Government hasn't done an overall impact assessment on Brexit, contradicting indications previously given"
Ah well it does explain why he can't reveal the Documents doesn't it?
Time to put an end to all this nonsense
The man is a Danger and has been all along.
In the Independent
"MPs are also calling for Brexit Secretary David Davis to be held in contempt of Parliament for "misleading" MPs on the existence of a series of Brexit impact assessments. In a grilling by the Brexit Select Committee today, Mr Davis admitted the reports had not been done."
So in other words the Government is committed to a course of action that the outcome of which is a complete mystery to them?
Here is a big chance for our resident right wingers to offer a pragmatic reason for continuing with Brexit.
It is clear that the only people who have any clue as to the likely outcome are on the other side of the channel and our Government either couldn't be bothered to study where their policy was going, or more likely did know but didn't want any evidence to exist to prove it.
And the alternative? the Raving lunatic right wing of the Tory Party want to go for Hard Brexit with even less idea of what will happen, but they don't give a toss about that but think of all the money they can screw the Public for in the process of selling off the State.
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Ah Ha, as i suspected!!
Dail in uproar about pushing through Ireland's involvement in PESCO (aka, European Defence force) with just 2 hrs of debate on Thurs.
It will treble defence spending & undermine our neutrality.
"Was this a quid pro quo for EU supporting Ireland Brexit stance"? asks @RBoydBarrett
What a disgustingly shabby little deal.
Dail in uproar about pushing through Ireland's involvement in PESCO (aka, European Defence force) with just 2 hrs of debate on Thurs.
It will treble defence spending & undermine our neutrality.
"Was this a quid pro quo for EU supporting Ireland Brexit stance"? asks @RBoydBarrett
What a disgustingly shabby little deal.
No Tommie it isn't the Defence deal is a known situation there are always some who would oppose that in any country, and in any case it's nothing to do with Northern ireland is it, or us for that matter, and therefore of no interest to the present discussion.
Are you happy that the EU will become a major miltary power on your doorstep and you can't do anything to affect that?
That's the real issue.
BY the way, Have you managed to Screw TM for a bigger Bribe yet? or even improve on the pittance delivered so far?
That is what you should be working on.
It would be better for everybody if they just listened to an old considered opinion as agreed by Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong.....
Tom
An unusual turn of Phrase in the Independent Headline
"
Yes, the Brexit Secretary David Davis really does think there's no point planning for Brexit
This was not some great epistemological conundrum. It was a bullshitter and a blagger trying and pyrotechnically failing to cover its arse
He even brought a box with him, to the Brexit Select Committee, that is. Two lever arch files, themselves not large enough to contain much more than a dead cat. In fact, we learned, they contained the totality of his department’s assessments on the impact of Brexit on the UK economy, broken down across dozens of different sectors. In size, if nothing else, it bore every outward resemblance not to a comprehensive analysis of how this seismic decision will affect the country, but to a primary school project on trains.
“Do the impact assessments exist?” he was asked. Davis sucked on a cough sweet and removed and replaced his glasses with such frequency he could still be marketed as a novelty Chinese lucky cat toy in good time for Christmas.
“There is a formal definition of impact assessments,” he began, his words instantly and inescapably caught in the centrifugal force of the plughole of 'no'.
Had he, the Committee Chair Hilary Benn asked him, produced an impact assessment on, say, the automotive sector?
“No.”
“The aerospace industry?”
“No.”
“The financial services sector?”
“I think the answer to all of these is going to be no,” he said.
On previous occasions, David Davis has claimed his department has been analysing the effects of Brexit in “excruciating detail.” That that excruciating detail appeared to be contained in two ring-binders which he did not deny had been produced in the last three weeks, after a House of Commons vote compelled him to publish it.
What his department had been doing was apparently “sectoral analyses” not impact assessments. There was, apparently, no point in actually forecasting the risks of Brexit. David Davis was, he said, “not a fan of economic models because they’re always wrong.”
Brexit would be a “paradigm shift” and yes, at this point, its most fervent cheerleader and now chief negotiator did liken it to the “financial crash of 2008.”
There would be no point in seeking to predict the economic impact of Brexit, because “No one saw the financial crash coming.”
No, they did not. But if you’d told JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs and the rest of them that the financial crash was coming, and not merely that but you were able to tell them the precise date more than two years in advance, it’s fair to imagine they would not have said “Well, there’s not much point in planning for it. We’ll see how it goes.”
It doesn’t matter much, this, in the grand scheme of things. That the nation is hopelessly underprepared for Brexit and that David Davis is utterly clueless is common knowledge to anyone even vaguely intimated with the process.
In one of his final public utterance before deleting his Twitter account, the former Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings memorably described Davis as “thick as mince, vain as narcissus and lazy as a toad.”
On this evidence, that was generous assessment, even if its impact on Davis has been zero."
.........................................................
What I want to know is; Which Enemy Power destroyed the sanity of this country with a 100 Megaton Artificial Stupidity Bomb?
One of the Reader's Comments stands out head and shoulders above the rest:
"
jcgu64
I do think this is grossly insulting to toads. How would you feel, if you were a toad, being compared to David Davis?.
Just So., but then what civility or consideration could one expect from a "leader of the Leave Camp"?
"
Yes, the Brexit Secretary David Davis really does think there's no point planning for Brexit
This was not some great epistemological conundrum. It was a bullshitter and a blagger trying and pyrotechnically failing to cover its arse
He even brought a box with him, to the Brexit Select Committee, that is. Two lever arch files, themselves not large enough to contain much more than a dead cat. In fact, we learned, they contained the totality of his department’s assessments on the impact of Brexit on the UK economy, broken down across dozens of different sectors. In size, if nothing else, it bore every outward resemblance not to a comprehensive analysis of how this seismic decision will affect the country, but to a primary school project on trains.
“Do the impact assessments exist?” he was asked. Davis sucked on a cough sweet and removed and replaced his glasses with such frequency he could still be marketed as a novelty Chinese lucky cat toy in good time for Christmas.
“There is a formal definition of impact assessments,” he began, his words instantly and inescapably caught in the centrifugal force of the plughole of 'no'.
Had he, the Committee Chair Hilary Benn asked him, produced an impact assessment on, say, the automotive sector?
“No.”
“The aerospace industry?”
“No.”
“The financial services sector?”
“I think the answer to all of these is going to be no,” he said.
On previous occasions, David Davis has claimed his department has been analysing the effects of Brexit in “excruciating detail.” That that excruciating detail appeared to be contained in two ring-binders which he did not deny had been produced in the last three weeks, after a House of Commons vote compelled him to publish it.
What his department had been doing was apparently “sectoral analyses” not impact assessments. There was, apparently, no point in actually forecasting the risks of Brexit. David Davis was, he said, “not a fan of economic models because they’re always wrong.”
Brexit would be a “paradigm shift” and yes, at this point, its most fervent cheerleader and now chief negotiator did liken it to the “financial crash of 2008.”
There would be no point in seeking to predict the economic impact of Brexit, because “No one saw the financial crash coming.”
No, they did not. But if you’d told JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs and the rest of them that the financial crash was coming, and not merely that but you were able to tell them the precise date more than two years in advance, it’s fair to imagine they would not have said “Well, there’s not much point in planning for it. We’ll see how it goes.”
It doesn’t matter much, this, in the grand scheme of things. That the nation is hopelessly underprepared for Brexit and that David Davis is utterly clueless is common knowledge to anyone even vaguely intimated with the process.
In one of his final public utterance before deleting his Twitter account, the former Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings memorably described Davis as “thick as mince, vain as narcissus and lazy as a toad.”
On this evidence, that was generous assessment, even if its impact on Davis has been zero."
.........................................................
What I want to know is; Which Enemy Power destroyed the sanity of this country with a 100 Megaton Artificial Stupidity Bomb?
One of the Reader's Comments stands out head and shoulders above the rest:
"
jcgu64
I do think this is grossly insulting to toads. How would you feel, if you were a toad, being compared to David Davis?.
Just So., but then what civility or consideration could one expect from a "leader of the Leave Camp"?
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To me PESCO makes a lot of sense. With the present lack of co-operation between countries defence provisions, Europe doesn't present an effective deterrent against an attack. It has a mixture of duplications and yawning gaps. Co-ordination is obviously the answer and can ultimately avoid wasted expenditure on unnecessary provisions.
Sadly the UK won't be a part of this excellent initiative, which is very foolish. We'll no doubt carry on building such as aircraft carriers we have no use for in order to mothball them unused.
.
Davis has got away with his waffling before,I remember he once spoke for 40 mins in the house and actually revealed nothing.
But this time he had nowhere to hide,if the government don't fudge their way onto phase 2, I can see him resigning.
There are times at work when sorting a new product,even after a few days its obvious the product is not going to be successful,but sometimes the product is moved forward and money/effort is invested the product doesn't look any better but you move into the 'we have spent so much money/effort we have to see it through',ultimately sense prevails and the product is ditched,at a big loss.
Well Brexit is like that from day 1 it was a bad idea and every day looks worse but May and Co just dont want to admit defeat and unravel this whole Brexit mess,the referendum was only advisory,they can legally ditch it and say they gave it their best job but ultimately it was a bad idea with too many negatives,we seem to be at a stage where we have only lost a few hundred million,peanuts in government spend.
KudosDave
But this time he had nowhere to hide,if the government don't fudge their way onto phase 2, I can see him resigning.
There are times at work when sorting a new product,even after a few days its obvious the product is not going to be successful,but sometimes the product is moved forward and money/effort is invested the product doesn't look any better but you move into the 'we have spent so much money/effort we have to see it through',ultimately sense prevails and the product is ditched,at a big loss.
Well Brexit is like that from day 1 it was a bad idea and every day looks worse but May and Co just dont want to admit defeat and unravel this whole Brexit mess,the referendum was only advisory,they can legally ditch it and say they gave it their best job but ultimately it was a bad idea with too many negatives,we seem to be at a stage where we have only lost a few hundred million,peanuts in government spend.
KudosDave
From the BBC analysis of David Davis at the meeting.....
David Davis has probably not done the Brexit cause a huge bundle of good this morning. First, his frank admission that no impact assessments have been completed will inevitably be seized on by critics to argue Team May simply haven't done the basic spadework.
Second his suggestion that he doesn't have the resources for this, and anyway some of the work his officials have done wasn't much good, is hardly a ringing endorsement of his Brexit department.
Third, Mr Davis probably didn't help his own reputation by telling the committee he had been handed two chapters of the 850 pages of analysis but hadn't read them. At times Mr Davis even chided the committee over the time they were taking.
Fair enough the Brexit secretary had a cold - but at times he sounded thoroughly frazzled and cheesed off. Not a great look.
David Davis has probably not done the Brexit cause a huge bundle of good this morning. First, his frank admission that no impact assessments have been completed will inevitably be seized on by critics to argue Team May simply haven't done the basic spadework.
Second his suggestion that he doesn't have the resources for this, and anyway some of the work his officials have done wasn't much good, is hardly a ringing endorsement of his Brexit department.
Third, Mr Davis probably didn't help his own reputation by telling the committee he had been handed two chapters of the 850 pages of analysis but hadn't read them. At times Mr Davis even chided the committee over the time they were taking.
Fair enough the Brexit secretary had a cold - but at times he sounded thoroughly frazzled and cheesed off. Not a great look.
.. unity at last Tommie, .. I really appreciate the inclusive " our" in your sentence... For what it is worth FG , has always been in favour of international engagement perhaps even NATO. so their support would always be a given. FF would have been more reluctant, and would want to stick to the tried and trusted UN .
A year ago Mr Davis said his department was "in the midst of carrying out about 57 sets of analyses" on different parts of the economy.
I was wondering what on earth all the extra 3000 - 8000 civil servants hired to work on Brexit have been doing since June 2016 - this article on DD's dept might offer a clue...
Brexit department: More than 20% of civil servants working for David Davis have left in the last 14 months (Sept '17)
High turnover could suggest civil servants don’t enjoy working in the department
Britain’s Department for Exiting the European Union has only existed for 14 months but already more than 20 per cent of its staff have left.
According to the Government’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by Bloomberg, as of 18 August, 124 employees had left the department since it was set up, leaving 482.
The churn on Cabinet office jobs reportedly soared from 20 per cent in 2010 to 35 per cent in 2016, but the average staff turnover across the civil service more broadly was just 9.1 per cent last year.
The high turnover within the Brexit department could suggest that civil servants don’t enjoy working in the office which is tasked with one of the Government's most challenging jobs in decades.
The department itself, however, pointed out that fewer than five of the people who had left had quit the civil service altogether, suggesting that some officials may just be passing through the department to gain valuable experience. It said that a large majority of the changes were the “result of normal civil service rotation or the end of defined loan periods”.
Oliver Robbins announced that he would be leaving the department last Monday after a spate of reported rows with Brexit Secretary David Davis. Government insiders claimed that Mr Davis had been left frozen out of decision making, and that there was no personal warmth between the two men. Mr Robbins joined the Cabinet office as Theresa May’s EU adviser, which is a brand new role.
I was wondering what on earth all the extra 3000 - 8000 civil servants hired to work on Brexit have been doing since June 2016 - this article on DD's dept might offer a clue...
Brexit department: More than 20% of civil servants working for David Davis have left in the last 14 months (Sept '17)
High turnover could suggest civil servants don’t enjoy working in the department
Britain’s Department for Exiting the European Union has only existed for 14 months but already more than 20 per cent of its staff have left.
According to the Government’s response to a freedom of information request submitted by Bloomberg, as of 18 August, 124 employees had left the department since it was set up, leaving 482.
The churn on Cabinet office jobs reportedly soared from 20 per cent in 2010 to 35 per cent in 2016, but the average staff turnover across the civil service more broadly was just 9.1 per cent last year.
The high turnover within the Brexit department could suggest that civil servants don’t enjoy working in the office which is tasked with one of the Government's most challenging jobs in decades.
The department itself, however, pointed out that fewer than five of the people who had left had quit the civil service altogether, suggesting that some officials may just be passing through the department to gain valuable experience. It said that a large majority of the changes were the “result of normal civil service rotation or the end of defined loan periods”.
Oliver Robbins announced that he would be leaving the department last Monday after a spate of reported rows with Brexit Secretary David Davis. Government insiders claimed that Mr Davis had been left frozen out of decision making, and that there was no personal warmth between the two men. Mr Robbins joined the Cabinet office as Theresa May’s EU adviser, which is a brand new role.
At least 'spread sheet Phil' will have done his homework....
Q: Has the cabinet discussed the end state, where the UK wants to get to after Brexit?
Hammond says there have been discussions about Brexit, but not a specific one about the end state.
He says the first discussion will come in a cabinet committee.
That can only happen when they know talks will move to phase two. Any discussion before then would be premature, he claims.
KudosDave
Q: Has the cabinet discussed the end state, where the UK wants to get to after Brexit?
Hammond says there have been discussions about Brexit, but not a specific one about the end state.
He says the first discussion will come in a cabinet committee.
That can only happen when they know talks will move to phase two. Any discussion before then would be premature, he claims.
- Hammond confirms cabinet has not had a specific discussion about the final Brexit outcome it wants, the so-called “end state”.
KudosDave
My understanding of parliamentary procedure, and particularly in the case of the UK, was that misleading, not even lieing to the house was viewed as a big no no . , And ministers would either be sacked or resign, where there a whiff of an untruth.
Is it not the case that this man stated that there were multiple assessment reports covering 50+ sectors in existence, and he was protecting them to protect a negotiating stance? . Now either he was lieing then or lieing now?
If they dont exist, what has his department being doing?, So he should be fired for incompetence.
If they do exist then he should be fired for lieing.