Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
If after the referendum the government made a good job of Brexit and suggested what are the advantages of Brexit then most Remoaners would have shut up and we would all be looking forward to the pot of gold.
But they have made a real mess of the negotiations,well that is the appearance and nobody is telling us what we are going to achieve post Brexit.
That situation will continue unless this government get their act together.
We should have a second referendum and allow the expats to vote in it or let parliament have a free vote,without whips. If we leave badly,whatever that form takes then Remainers will be saying 'told you so' for years ahead.
This government is not achieving any social mobility in the UK,see Milburn's resignation,those who voted Brexit in the deprived regions must be very disappointed as to what Brexit is achieving for them,they may not engage in a protest vote again.
KudosDave
But they have made a real mess of the negotiations,well that is the appearance and nobody is telling us what we are going to achieve post Brexit.
That situation will continue unless this government get their act together.
We should have a second referendum and allow the expats to vote in it or let parliament have a free vote,without whips. If we leave badly,whatever that form takes then Remainers will be saying 'told you so' for years ahead.
This government is not achieving any social mobility in the UK,see Milburn's resignation,those who voted Brexit in the deprived regions must be very disappointed as to what Brexit is achieving for them,they may not engage in a protest vote again.
KudosDave
That your government has made what we would call a " cats paw" of it, I can agree with, however where I must disagree is that it could ever have been a success. I believe you are being over optimistic, and falling into the fallacy that " if we all work together, it will be all right on the night"... That feeds into the sense of grievance and victimhood which will happen in those deprived areas post Brexit.
I wish you would have a second and more inclusive and decisive referendum, and i hope that an enlightened EU parliament would allow the uk to take back their article 50 document without rancour.
Glorious stuff from another Wayne Kerr Damian........
Tom
You really couldn't make it up!
Tom
Its achieving absolutely nothing, everyone I know to a "man" that voted leave did so on one primary issue, immigrants. Both leave and remain camps fed the electorate a bucket load of dung. "Dynamite Dave" expected "remain" Forage, after poking the wasps nest for so long, ran away to worship Trump, and now we have Jacob Rees Mogg, being touted as the next Tory Leader, rubbing shoulders with Steve Bannon. Certainly a "win win" outcome.
Is this a 'win-win' situation or what?
......and in a little international competition involving teams representing most of Europe and all the other continents, England has been fortunate to find the country has a great chance of further progression.
The irreverent Frankie Boyle had this to say:
Tom
......and in a little international competition involving teams representing most of Europe and all the other continents, England has been fortunate to find the country has a great chance of further progression.
The irreverent Frankie Boyle had this to say:
Tom
Some notes on tory politics in 2017 in pictorial form:
Pictures don't lie!
Tom
Pictures don't lie!
Tom
Not much has changed since this appeared in The New York Herald in 1864.
"The world has seen its iron age, its silver age, its golden age, and its brazen age. This is the age of shoddy. . . shoddy brokers in Wall Street, or shoddy manufacturers of shoddy goods, or shoddy contractors for shoddy articles for shoddy government. Six days a week they are shoddy businessmen. On the seventh day, they are shoddy Christians."
Anerin Bevan described the mind set of the Brexit Voter very well with this
"
Discontent arises from a knowledge of the possible, as contrasted with the actual.
from In Place of Fear, 1952
And this all those years ago is even more relevant today
"The Prime Minister has an absolute genius for putting flamboyant labels on empty luggage."
Discontent arises from a knowledge of the possible, as contrasted with the actual.
from In Place of Fear, 1952
Could quite easily be said of remainers and probably the EU. But, isn't it high time we stopped the distinction? I simply can not see the point in this division any more.
What ever way we voted last June should not be the defining characteristic of a persons character, unless we are looking to apportion blame , which is quite a pointless objective.
We are where we are. If we have another referendum perhaps it would be important again. Being a leaver or remainer is not a political affiliation or belief, so why maintain it.
from In Place of Fear, 1952
Could quite easily be said of remainers and probably the EU. But, isn't it high time we stopped the distinction? I simply can not see the point in this division any more.
What ever way we voted last June should not be the defining characteristic of a persons character, unless we are looking to apportion blame , which is quite a pointless objective.
We are where we are. If we have another referendum perhaps it would be important again. Being a leaver or remainer is not a political affiliation or belief, so why maintain it.
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There is a fundamental distinction. The remainers knew what they were voting for. The brexiteers didn't . they just hoped and wished . The situation as it pertains today is the the UK is actually still a member, and could still be a member in five years time. All the expectations as raised by the leave camp are being dismantled as reality dawns. The remainers could well be in the majority. It is therefore unfair to seek to claim an equivalence in competence. When and if there is a full Brexit, that would be the time to cancel the division.
Lying and cheating are the tories' stock-in-trade, once again proven in a court of law.
The party of millionaires, billionaires and tax avoiders/evaders are desperately trying to stay in power and drag the UK out of the EU before EU legislation comes to bear upon tax issues and offshore havens. The ordinary man in the street whose tax is deducted at source will need to pay through the nose for 'Brexit' for years to come and will lose all the benefits we have enjoyed for 44 years, while the wealthy will continue to circumvent their rightful share of tax being paid into the treasury.
A vote for a tory is to support crime by the wealthy at the expense of ordinary people.
bob-spink-mp-electoral-fraud-conservative-mp-ukip-voter-castle-point-essex-southwark-crown-cour-a8087266.html
Tom
The party of millionaires, billionaires and tax avoiders/evaders are desperately trying to stay in power and drag the UK out of the EU before EU legislation comes to bear upon tax issues and offshore havens. The ordinary man in the street whose tax is deducted at source will need to pay through the nose for 'Brexit' for years to come and will lose all the benefits we have enjoyed for 44 years, while the wealthy will continue to circumvent their rightful share of tax being paid into the treasury.
A vote for a tory is to support crime by the wealthy at the expense of ordinary people.
bob-spink-mp-electoral-fraud-conservative-mp-ukip-voter-castle-point-essex-southwark-crown-cour-a8087266.html
Tom
Just thought I'd add a bit of political party equality to the mix.
Expenses scandal of Corbyn aide 'Lord Swampy' is revealed: How the squatter turned Labour peer pocketed £41,000 in travel fares AND £260,000 for a 'home' that doesn't exist
- Corbyn aide Lord Bassam admitted he had been at fault over travel expenses
- He faces further questions over another £260,000 ‘second home’ allowance
- He has pocketed the allowance since 2010 - despite not having a second home
Couldn't make it up.
Leavers have done the UK considerable damage, often for right wing, xenophobic reasons. And they continue to pose this threat to civilisation, much like Le Penn, trump or geert wilders. It would be foolish to forget or condone any of that.
Reference please..Just thought I'd add a bit of political party equality to the mix.
Expenses scandal of Corbyn aide 'Lord Swampy' is revealed: How the squatter turned Labour peer pocketed £41,000 in travel fares AND £260,000 for a 'home' that doesn't exist
- Corbyn aide Lord Bassam admitted he had been at fault over travel expenses
- He faces further questions over another £260,000 ‘second home’ allowance
- He has pocketed the allowance since 2010 - despite not having a second home
Couldn't make it up.
Daily Mail. Sorry, I shall now go and cleanse my soul.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5140039/Jeremy-Corbyn-aid-embroiled-major-expenses-scandal.html
Pox News no longer on UK satellite channel's Hatie Kopkins becomes too toxic even for the "Daily Spode" there is hope. Mind you, she ? may be off to join her friends at $h!tebart. Now that is dangerous.
Theresa May.....something about frying pans and fires.
I must say that I feel sorry for her,she knows that she cannot expect much help from Remainers in the Tory party but must have thought that the Leavers would have supported her.
But next week she goes to Brussels with the knowledge that some of the Brexiters,all ex Cabinet members....IDS,Rees-Mogg,Redwood,Paterson have threatened her that if she is to hand over plus £40 billion there are a number of red lines that she must not cross,these include...
1. No more jurisdiction of the ECJ after March 29,2019
2. The ability to sign free trade deals with the rest of the world.
3. A free trade deal with the EU
4. No more new laws from the EU
Point 1. Is already a problem for aviation over the UK
Point 2. Gives Fox something to do,but will others want to sign up with us.
Point 3. Would be surprised if the EU gives this,it would cure the problem of the Irish border but just cannot see the EU allowing a 300 mile hole in their customs protection,it would make Ireland a smuggling haven.
Point 4. Is a no brainier to a Leaver
What do we do if the EU refuses to give on any or many of these points,I suppose we test whether the EU really needs the UK as a trading partner.
Not sure what day of the week is March 30,2019 it will be interesting what form UK-EU trade takes on that day....I may warn my EU customers to get orders early prior to that date. Maybe nothing will happen and we will carry on trading as though nothing happened?
KudosDave
Ps......March 30,2019 is a Saturday.....so all the bedlam could happen over a weekend when MP's are not available.....why not have the date on a Monday???
I must say that I feel sorry for her,she knows that she cannot expect much help from Remainers in the Tory party but must have thought that the Leavers would have supported her.
But next week she goes to Brussels with the knowledge that some of the Brexiters,all ex Cabinet members....IDS,Rees-Mogg,Redwood,Paterson have threatened her that if she is to hand over plus £40 billion there are a number of red lines that she must not cross,these include...
1. No more jurisdiction of the ECJ after March 29,2019
2. The ability to sign free trade deals with the rest of the world.
3. A free trade deal with the EU
4. No more new laws from the EU
Point 1. Is already a problem for aviation over the UK
Point 2. Gives Fox something to do,but will others want to sign up with us.
Point 3. Would be surprised if the EU gives this,it would cure the problem of the Irish border but just cannot see the EU allowing a 300 mile hole in their customs protection,it would make Ireland a smuggling haven.
Point 4. Is a no brainier to a Leaver
What do we do if the EU refuses to give on any or many of these points,I suppose we test whether the EU really needs the UK as a trading partner.
Not sure what day of the week is March 30,2019 it will be interesting what form UK-EU trade takes on that day....I may warn my EU customers to get orders early prior to that date. Maybe nothing will happen and we will carry on trading as though nothing happened?
KudosDave
Ps......March 30,2019 is a Saturday.....so all the bedlam could happen over a weekend when MP's are not available.....why not have the date on a Monday???
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