No, no, i didn`t mean rejoining the UK, keeping your present status politically but leaving the EU and negotiating alongside the UK.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Interesting. Would that not to negate everything and revert back to 1923 ? All the pain, no gain, attempting to have embassies in 160 countries ? Economic war? . Trying to negotiate all those trade deals , including one with our near neighbours in Newry
Like every other option it deserves to be considered.
I did not expect reading this from the Torygraph:
The trouble with Brexit, they should have said, is that it will be monumentally tedious. So monumentally tedious, in fact, that beleaguered voters will actually beg their MPs to make the media shut up about it. Such has been the experience of Tracey Crouch, Tory MP for Chatham & Aylesford.
“People come up to me in the street,” she revealed in an interview yesterday, “and say, ‘Can you ask the BBC to stop reporting on Brexit?’”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/21/revealed-last-remain-could-have-stopped-brexit/
The trouble with Brexit, they should have said, is that it will be monumentally tedious. So monumentally tedious, in fact, that beleaguered voters will actually beg their MPs to make the media shut up about it. Such has been the experience of Tracey Crouch, Tory MP for Chatham & Aylesford.
“People come up to me in the street,” she revealed in an interview yesterday, “and say, ‘Can you ask the BBC to stop reporting on Brexit?’”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/21/revealed-last-remain-could-have-stopped-brexit/
You`re missing my point, that wouldn`t change, neither would your trade with the rest of the UK, everything inter Irl/UK would be as it is now, i`m talking of an economic agreement along with the UK not a political one.
Big question of course is will the people of ROI be better off in or out of the EU on the day of UK leaving?
This is surprising, considering that this contributor has expended a huge amount of effort supporting Brexit it must surely be galling to find the public just want to get it over with!
In many ways it is an admission of failure on his part, or isn't he bright enough to see that?
The effects of the Stupid Bomb attack that has crippled Government thinking seems to have infected the Press as well!
The free state has done rather well for itself in recent years so I see no reason why it should shoot itself in the foot just because the UK has got itself into a bit of a pickle.
Perhaps if the UK parliament had done its homework and realised that the Irish border would be an obstacle in its desire to plough headlong towards the imagined Shangri-La, with all the sovereignty its people could ever wish to eat, this problem would not exist.
Tom
I think it would inside the EU ... 60% of our trade is with the mainland EU and 40% with the UK. US firms use Ireland as a gateway into Europe, the fact that we speak in a language they understand don't hurt either . Its a benefit NI has lost out on, but should really be in a position to benefit from, as there is a significant us population with Ulster roots. But outside the EU they would have no interest.
There is no guarantee that a UK government would deal fairly with us. They have previous... And if they believed we had less options, which we would have, and with only their concience to guide them, we would be .. royally xxxxxed .
When and if the UK leaves, the people from BOTH NI and RoI will be damaged. It will be a bad day for all in these islands, us ,you, the Scots the Welsh and the English.
In our case the damage will be more limited if we remain in the EU 60 is bigger than 40 . And a significant amount of that 40% is with yourselves. It is NI which has the 75% with mainland UK.
David Davis 'must be joking if he wants EU to compromise on Brexit'
“The legal consequence of Brexit is that the UK financial service providers lose their EU passport. This passport allows them to offer their services to a market of 500 million consumers and 22 million businesses."
The pronouncement is bad news for the City, where over 5,400 British firms rely on passporting rights to bring in £9 billion in revenue every year to Britain. The BBA has said the loss of passporting would be “disruptive, costly and time-consuming”.
It also comes the same day as the EU announces where it will relocating the European Banking Authority, an EU agency currently based in London, after Brexit.
Danidl.....BULLYING BY THE EU...
Tusk and Barnier have got this all wrong if they think such threats will sway the UK electorate....if anything it will strengthen our resolve to rid ourselves of this bullying EU....Brits dont like being threatened.
I have friends in the City,moving these contracts away from London is not easy,London is very good at these tasks,Paris is too expensive and tax ridden,Frankfurt is boring.
KudosDave
I take it that you do not believe in "contracts" as such when you talk of bullying and blackmail.
What the EU are demanding was clearly stated in the conditions when the UK joined the EU.......now you may not like this but it is a fact. This article was written in 2016 and makes clear the UK's contractual obligations.
"UK could owe EU up to €65 billion after Brexit
Budget obligations will have to be fulfilled, the EU will tell Britain."
"A large portion of Britain’s bill will go toward the pensions of EU civil servants — not just Brits, but all EU nationals working for the European institutions. The U.K. had agreed to contribute about 15 percent of the EU budget that covers pensions for Eurocrats.
On top of that, the U.K. will be billed for infrastructure projects. The Commission and Council are expecting the U.K. to pay its share toward projects across Europe that were agreed while the U.K. was still a member. This includes subsidies for farmers.
The U.K. will have to fulfill its contribution to the Investment Plan for Europe — dubbed the Juncker Plan — for projects on the environment, infrastructure, innovation and small businesses.
The U.K. was one of the biggest contributors to the plan, coughing up €6 billion, but it’s also one of the biggest beneficiaries."
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-could-owe-eu-up-to-e65-billion-after-brexit-theresa-may-juncker-plan/[/QUOTE]
The EU and UK have had big teams working on the divorce bill for months...isn't it about time that someone got the notepad and calculator out and published what there is no doubt we owe. This number is what we have to pay to meet our commitments if we want to leave.
Then the EU should tell us what future trade deal they are prepared to offer,we then bid for this deal according to how attractive it looks. Nobody would make an offer for a deal that you don't know what the deal represents...the ball is in the EU's court to advise what deal they are offering.
The deal may be unattractive in which case we pay nothing,it may be a wonderful deal and we pay a lot to get it or interpolate between extremes.
Not forgetting that the EU should also pay to get access to our big home market which I am sure Danish bacon,BMW cars ,French wine,Italian Prosecco and Spanish tomatoes are very concerned not to have tariff free access to our desirable market...at one time German car makers used to look upon the UK as a golden market,the RHD not costing much more but attracting a premium price.
As Davis has said the EU and UK will panic at the last moment to ensure that trade continues....BMW Mini would close without 'just in time' parts delivery and Spanish tomatoes rotting in trucks will focus the negotiators.
Just a shame we have to wait until early 2019 before the real deal is done.
The Irish border is more Ireland's problem,which will soon become the EU's problem,solved by a FTD and probably no other way than Remain.
KudosDave
That isn't true, is it? whatever happens we are commited to pay outstanding debts, I really don't know why this bothers you so much.
We should stop messing about, discuss that they want, reach agreement, pay up and get on with it.
Why all the ranting and raving that the press are obviously successfully inflaming people with?
Our need is quite simply the difference between these two situations
On the one hand one side will be in dire straits if it doesn't get a good deal
On the other a much bigger group will take a hit that it can shrug off by delaying some projects.
When faced with a situation like this you simply have to face facts and not live in cloud cuckoo "What if" land.
Pay up, smile and move on.
Better still accept that Brexit is a wrong 'un and find a way to cancel it.
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Slightly OT bur just had this sent.Quite appropriate ?
" AREGULAR GUY
Well, apart from being past 75 and the pipe, pretty well sums up me and many of my friends and peers. Sad, isn’t it.
This just about sums it up!
I used to think I was just a regular guy, but . . . I was born white, which now, whether I like it or not, makes me a racist.
I am a fiscal and moral conservative, which by today's standards, makes me a fascist.
I am heterosexual, which according to gay folks, now makes me a homophobic.
I am non-union, which makes me a traitor to the working class and an ally of big business.
I am a Christian, which now labels me as an infidel.
I am older than 70, which makes me a useless old man.
I think and I reason, therefore I doubt much that the main stream media tells me, which must make me a reactionary.
I am proud of my heritage and our inclusive culture, which makes me a xenophobe.
I value my safety and that of my family and I appreciate the police and the legal system, which makes me a right-wing extremist.
I believe in hard work, fair play, and fair compensation according to each individual's merits, which today makes me an anti-socialist.
I believe in the defence and protection of the homeland for and by all citizens, which now makes me a militant.
Please help me come to terms with the new me . . because I'm just not sure who I am anymore!
As if all this crap wasn't enough to deal with. I'm now afraid to go into either lavatory!"
???
" AREGULAR GUY
Well, apart from being past 75 and the pipe, pretty well sums up me and many of my friends and peers. Sad, isn’t it.
This just about sums it up!
I used to think I was just a regular guy, but . . . I was born white, which now, whether I like it or not, makes me a racist.
I am a fiscal and moral conservative, which by today's standards, makes me a fascist.
I am heterosexual, which according to gay folks, now makes me a homophobic.
I am non-union, which makes me a traitor to the working class and an ally of big business.
I am a Christian, which now labels me as an infidel.
I am older than 70, which makes me a useless old man.
I think and I reason, therefore I doubt much that the main stream media tells me, which must make me a reactionary.
I am proud of my heritage and our inclusive culture, which makes me a xenophobe.
I value my safety and that of my family and I appreciate the police and the legal system, which makes me a right-wing extremist.
I believe in hard work, fair play, and fair compensation according to each individual's merits, which today makes me an anti-socialist.
I believe in the defence and protection of the homeland for and by all citizens, which now makes me a militant.
Please help me come to terms with the new me . . because I'm just not sure who I am anymore!
As if all this crap wasn't enough to deal with. I'm now afraid to go into either lavatory!"
???
Read my posting again...I said we should pay our commitments,that should be a sum which is calculable,I assume our team has that figure.
After that anything more is dependent upon how attractive is the trade deal,I said that may be nil but we should pay our commitments.
Hope I have made that clear.
It looks like the government have just had to climb down to avoid on a Tory amendment in the house,only 10 Tory rebels.
KudosDave
It bothers me because Barnier is in the driving seat,we don't appear to even be in the car. Every time the EU says it wants more money,May goes away and squeezes Hammond (not a nice thought) for money which we haven't got unless we borrow it.
May is a puppet tweeked by the bastard 50 ( or is it 30) who don't care what happens to the economy,NHS,trade just as long as they get their petty bit of power,but she is a hopeless negotiator. There are times when buying something ,that silence is a powerful tool and less haste gets the other side desperate,May hasnt learnt that,maybe Davis has.
We don't need to walk away just don't jump every time the EU says jump,the EU will soon realise that we are looking for 'more progress' on their side,the EU are probably more desperate for money than we are,time to test that.
KudosDave
the EU does not ask us to pay for a good trade deal. It is just that this tory government does not want customs union, the ECJ and FOM. Therefore, the only deal the EU can do is CETA type, on goods that attract already low duty. Our government wants passporting for our banks and mutual recognition of EU/BSI standards - the EU may give us some but will probably not enough for you and I to sell our stuff on ebay, amazon or Paypal to EU27 customers after brexit.
Thank you for standing up for us, but in this case unnecessary. Ireland does not have a veto on a trade deal. Assuming a trade deal is struck, qualified majority voting will be the way a deal is ratified. It is only if there is no deal and the UK seeks to extend the negotiating window that unanimous consent is required. Anyway I can report that our Leo is no shrinking violet. He is also a medical doctor, and you don't get qualified here in that discipline unless you perform in the top 1 to 2% %.. academically.
I don't sell on the e-bay to EU countries,all my e-bay sales are to the home market. I don't think WTO tariffs are going to be any good for the UK but also no good for the EU,30% plus on food,10% on cars but engineering items are low tariff. We can grow more at home but exports to the EU for our farmers will be difficult,maybe that will end up good for our farmers.
Maybe the German car manufacturers will have to set up assembling plants in the UK to satisfy only the UK and avoid the tariffs.
I am sure we will all finds ways around the negatives of Brexit,for me the shame is making ourselves more socially isolated,young people will hate that.
KudosDave
An amazing headline in the Daily Mail
"
The EU's imploding as nation after nation turns to the ugly far Right but Brussels and the Remainers just wont talk about it, writes ROBERT HARDMAN
Cleary this fellow doesn't really understand what is happening in this country too, does he?
"
The EU's imploding as nation after nation turns to the ugly far Right but Brussels and the Remainers just wont talk about it, writes ROBERT HARDMAN
Cleary this fellow doesn't really understand what is happening in this country too, does he?