The new reduction of animal rights legislation will put a stop to that pretty sharpish!
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Trust is a very precious commodity. All Western European establishments carrying out experiments on animals have protocols in place and have ethics committees.
By wanton I mean reckless disregard not necessarily avoidance.
Your last paragraph could just as easily have started with Humans treat Humans as well as other animals deplorably...
It is uniformed when one attributes the full range of human attributes to other animals. It is uninformed when this affection is selectively centred on particularly nice furry animals and ignores the scaley, the hard shelled, the invertebrates...
When one knows that one's immediate family have been saved by that self same research, and one knows the value of vaccination, of transplants and informed research, it is difficult to entertain vacuous nonsense.
There was more outcry for the few horses killed at that London barracks outrage some years ago than for the soldiers.
Uninformed seems to be a popular response to which my response is to reply it is uninformed to believe the only way to save human lives is to make other animals suffer, and to suppose science cannot come up with a better way
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Ricky Gervais had this to say on the matter of animal welfare and the tory government's attitude towards it:
I share his opinion.
Tom
I share his opinion.
Tom
Interesting developments here. At no time or stage did I state or imply that animals did not feel pain. At no stage did I recommend cruelty. My posting was in response to one by Zathlan where he was implying that medical research was not being done in his name.
Let me assert that I do approve of medical research, if it involves pain, discomfort, and death to animals, so be it. It is being done in my name. I do not want unnecessary or wanton cruelty to any creature. Where there are alternatives, such as computer simulated drug interactions or cellular biochemistry that is by far a better way, but in the final analysis, should animal based tests be necessary, then so be it.
Every human being on this planet, from the biggest hamburger eater to the slightest Buddhist kills animals. We use insecticides, selective agriculture, which favour some species at the expense of others.
'The Canary' had an interesting take on the subject of animal welfare yesterday. Clearly, the EU has developed a greater sense of the need for protections than this UK tory government believes appropriate:
really-need-discuss-latest-reprehensible-decision-conservative-dup-government-opinion
Tom
really-need-discuss-latest-reprehensible-decision-conservative-dup-government-opinion
Tom
I came across this and while any connection with the topic of this thread may not be immediately obvious, it occurs to me that 120 years after Connolly wrote these words, Ireland may shortly suffer greatly yet again as a result of the Westminster government's influence.
Tom
Tom
Some may see this matter as trivial but I find it appalling and Davis along with May's chief of staff should be held responsible for breaching the rules on expenses:
david-davis-threatened-to-skip-brexit-talks-unless-he-was-flown-in-by-the-raf
Tom
david-davis-threatened-to-skip-brexit-talks-unless-he-was-flown-in-by-the-raf
Tom
I would see James Connolly as the true hero of the Irish rising. Many of the other leaders were starry eyed. Idealists with notions of blood sacrifice redeeming the manhood of Ireland ... And other such guff.
James Connolly was clear thinking, had life experience, was not in favour of the rising and was dragged into supporting it.
The BBC has put out an interview with the Orange Order's parliamentary spokeswoman the leader of the DUP.
Having listened to her criticise the Irish Taoiseach over the border arrangements, it strikes me that she is singularly ignoring the fact that a hard border between NI and Eire will be inevitable should the UK fail to satisfy the EU on the issue.
Her friends at Westminster have tried to pretend to the EU that an invisible border will work perfectly well and while that may suit many in NI, it is outside the scope of the arrangements in place across the EU which is essentially tax and tariff free. It goes without saying that NI will not be within the EU upon 'Brexit' taking place.
Instead of criticising the Taoiseach, Foster should be directing her bile towards Mrs May and the tory government which created this appalling mess.
A billion smackers goes a long way!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42064743
Tom
Having listened to her criticise the Irish Taoiseach over the border arrangements, it strikes me that she is singularly ignoring the fact that a hard border between NI and Eire will be inevitable should the UK fail to satisfy the EU on the issue.
Her friends at Westminster have tried to pretend to the EU that an invisible border will work perfectly well and while that may suit many in NI, it is outside the scope of the arrangements in place across the EU which is essentially tax and tariff free. It goes without saying that NI will not be within the EU upon 'Brexit' taking place.
Instead of criticising the Taoiseach, Foster should be directing her bile towards Mrs May and the tory government which created this appalling mess.
A billion smackers goes a long way!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42064743
Tom
Virtually all of what Mr Dodds is saying I agree with particularly the passage where he says it's "economic madness to cut yourself off from your major market"...
The irish central bank did peg the irish pound or punt as we called it at 100% of the sterling level for probably 60 years and then it drifted apart in 1979 as Ireland joined the European exchange mechanism . Implicit in Mr Dodds language is that the RoI is a province of the U.K...
What he is omitting to say is that we have an all Ireland energy market and an all Ireland agricultural market with an integrated supply chain
He and she are also omitting to say that his DUP are flying in the face of the mandate they received from the NI people who voted 56+ % to stay in the EU.
Look on the Bright side there might, just might I say conceivably be someone in the ranks of Tory HQ that could do a better job as negotiatior, and I know the very person too!
The Janitor cum Toilet Cleaning man
After all unlike all the others inmates there, he isn't "Clean Round the Bend"
But actually knows HOW TO Clean Round the Bend.
An extract from Bike Europe on anti-dumping duty on e-bikes from China...
Accordingly, the Complaint has constructed a normal value by adding 14% direct overheads, 4% labour, 1% SG&A and 10% profit (the lower range of the target profit established in this Complaint) to the detailed materials costs. The total EXW costs were compared with the quoted export prices and show significant double digit dumping.”
Annex 22 also says “The Annex contains evidence of e-bikes prices offered by Chinese exporting producers to EU customers in the form of sample quotations. The information is business confidential by its nature. The excel table of the same Annex contains the price information on an anonymised basis. The disclosure of the actual quotes would be of significant disadvantage to the parties providing the information.”
On the basis of that price information by Chinese e-bike exporters EBMA calculated that the lowest dumping margin comes at 193% while the highest dumping margin stands at 430%!
What this will mean for the to be imposed anti-dumping duty when the European Commission’s investigation reaches the conclusion that dumping is taking place, is hard to tell. But what happened last Friday in the European Parliament will play a big role on that.
Make of that lot what you will....
KudosDave
Accordingly, the Complaint has constructed a normal value by adding 14% direct overheads, 4% labour, 1% SG&A and 10% profit (the lower range of the target profit established in this Complaint) to the detailed materials costs. The total EXW costs were compared with the quoted export prices and show significant double digit dumping.”
Annex 22 also says “The Annex contains evidence of e-bikes prices offered by Chinese exporting producers to EU customers in the form of sample quotations. The information is business confidential by its nature. The excel table of the same Annex contains the price information on an anonymised basis. The disclosure of the actual quotes would be of significant disadvantage to the parties providing the information.”
On the basis of that price information by Chinese e-bike exporters EBMA calculated that the lowest dumping margin comes at 193% while the highest dumping margin stands at 430%!
What this will mean for the to be imposed anti-dumping duty when the European Commission’s investigation reaches the conclusion that dumping is taking place, is hard to tell. But what happened last Friday in the European Parliament will play a big role on that.
Make of that lot what you will....
KudosDave
Notwithstanding the current cross-border markets and the implied co-operation, I'm at a loss to see how the EU's principles can be upheld without a hard customs border across Ireland. It seems to me that the EU as we know it would be totally undermined without a border that ensures the UK is wholly without access rights to the benefits enjoyed at present.
There is a circle that can't be squared, I fear.
Tom
Just noticed a headline front page of the times in the Newsagent
"May urged to take advantage over the problems of Angela Merkel to reduce Brexit Bill"
And the online version ran this headline
"
Don’t exploit Merkel weakness for Brexit gains, Germany warns
A German government minister has warned Britain to resist pressure from Tory Brexiteers to drive a harder bargain on the financial settlement with the EU following the collapse of Angela Merkel’s coalition talks. Senior Conservatives have demanded that Theresa May exploit the German chancellor’s political weakness and suspend plans to offer billions of pounds more to..."
How? any one care to speculate?
"May urged to take advantage over the problems of Angela Merkel to reduce Brexit Bill"
And the online version ran this headline
"
Don’t exploit Merkel weakness for Brexit gains, Germany warns
A German government minister has warned Britain to resist pressure from Tory Brexiteers to drive a harder bargain on the financial settlement with the EU following the collapse of Angela Merkel’s coalition talks. Senior Conservatives have demanded that Theresa May exploit the German chancellor’s political weakness and suspend plans to offer billions of pounds more to..."
How? any one care to speculate?
My point, such as it is, was to imply that there is currently so much cooperation at present, in a European context, between booth sides of the island, and with the two economies so linked, that the forced separation will be very costly, divisive and put all manner of strains on relationships.
Logically there are only a few ways of resolving this.
1. Declaration that the whole of the island remains a special economic zone within the EU context. Palatable to the majority of the population in NI, but unacceptable to a majority of the DUP, and presumably to the current British government.
2. Ireland south having a consitutional amendment and voting to rejoin the UK. Not palatable to the majority in the south or possibly a majority in the North and maybe unpalatable to the UK government.
3. Northern Ireland having a referendum ,and the RoI having a referendum to combine as the island of Ireland under the EU. Provided for under the terms of the GF agreement UK does not have a veto. How such a vote on either side of the current border would go I am not sure. If a significant rump of current unionists were forced against their will into a united Ireland, it would be a recipe for another 50 years of strife.
4. UK remains inside the single market.
5. UK shelves Brexit.
All other options involve a physical border.
Dan, you didn`t mention 6.
ROI also leaving the EU?
As a `partner` along with the UK i`m sure these whole islands would do quite well in trading with the rest of the world?.
ROI also leaving the EU?
As a `partner` along with the UK i`m sure these whole islands would do quite well in trading with the rest of the world?.
I read that article yesterday.
Can't say I am not depressed.
Let's wait and see if the EU will slap ADD on the e-bike kits as well.