Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

There were lies, Damned lies and this in the Guardian
Nissan to sue Vote Leave campaign over EU referendum flyer
Japanese carmaker to take legal action after its name and logo were used on leaflets urging voters to back Brexit



A British-made Nissan Micra painted in a Union Jack. The carmaker wants Britain to remain in the EU.

• 
  Nissan is to take legal action against the Vote Leave campaign after the Japanese carmaker’s logo was used on leaflets calling for voters to back Brexit in Thursday’s referendum.
  
  On one flyer the Nissan logo appeared next to those of four other major companies, including Unilever and Vauxhall, with the message: “Major employers … have all said they’ll stay in the UK whatever the result of the referendum.”
  
  Nissan, which wants Britain to remain in the EU, announced on Monday it was issuing legal proceedings to stop Vote Leave from using its name and logo and to “prevent them making any further false statements and misrepresentations concerning Nissan”.

And this too
"
Brexit: Electoral Commission launches inquiry into leave campaign funding
Watchdog has ‘reasonable grounds to suspect offence was committed’ by Vote Leave and student campaigner who received £625,000 from group

 

[oldgroaner]

Still no answer to why the government wants to reduce your rights have you?
And despite all evidence to to contrary votes that animals cannot feel pain and are not sentient,
hence these continued personal attacks.
Your only purpose in here is an attempt to derail the thread.

Zlatan admits defeat and resorts to marking this funny.
This from AA
"All Clause 58 sought to do was prevent the Tory-DUP government from bypassing parliament in order to revoke EU derived workers' rights, equal rights, workplace safety legislation, consumer protections, and environmental standards (see image).
The amendment sought to ensure that if the government wants to revoke any of these rights and standards, they must submit legislation to parliament in order to do it, rather than just using Brexit as an excuse to scrap them on the sly with no democratic scrutiny whatever.
The Tories came together to defeat the amendment to add Clause 58 to the EU Withdrawal Bill by 311 votes to 299.
Why are you against Democracy Zlatan? isn't it good enough for you?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Telegraph
"
Prime Minister's policy chief 'resigns' days ahead of Budget and warns party lacks 'coherent economic programme'"

Whay would he know about it anyway?
And
"
Tory backlash as Cabinet agrees to increase £20bn Brexit divorce bill !
I wonder why?
And from the Express
"
Theresa May warned she faces a MASSIVE REBELLION if £36 billion divorce bill goes through
THERESA May is facing a massive rebellion and resignations from her government if she tries to push through a Brexit deal with a £36 billion divorce bill."

Strong and stable eh?
It's a misfortune for a nation to have ONE Conservative Government, but a calamity for a Nation that has TWO at one and the same time.
Come on you Right Wingers, which Government do you support?
The Government or the other lot infesting it's ranks?

Did you marks this dislike because you have no answer again Zlatan?
That must be terribly frustrating for you.

 

[Zlatan]

Still no answer to why the government wants to reduce your rights have you?
And despite all evidence to the contrary votes that animals cannot feel pain and are not sentient,
hence these continued personal attacks.
Your only purpose in here is an attempt to derail the thread.

Its always a clever ploy when making a poor argument to repeat it over and over again OG. Well done.

On the animal welfare issue, you are doing exactly same as you,ve done throughout. You assume because somebody doesn't agree with this particular legislation then they must agree to bear baiting, dog fighting, animal vivisection and all types of animal cruelty. They dont, we don't need this legislation. I also wonder where we would be on the fight against cancer without all those beagles puffing away in the 60's. Yes, its cruel and I don't agree with it, but without some animal testing medical development, testing etc would be much slower.

 

[Zlatan]

Did you marks this dislike because you have no answer again Zlatan?
That must be terribly frustrating for you.

I found your need for repetition very amusing and telling.

On a practical note. Some animal welfare group broke into a farm near us and released into the wild all the mink. ( Hundreds of them)
They devastated local wildlife , killing young swans, taking over from the otters and generally being a menace. A couple if years later the mink have now died out.

 

[oldtom]

We should leave,not give them a penny more.

Why should we give ourselves all the pain and misery that will follow 'Brexit'? We should stay and play a full part in the ongoing creation of the US of E.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Zlatan admits defeat and resorts to marking this funny.
This from AA
"All Clause 58 sought to do was prevent the Tory-DUP government from bypassing parliament in order to revoke EU derived workers' rights, equal rights, workplace safety legislation, consumer protections, and environmental standards (see image).
The amendment sought to ensure that if the government wants to revoke any of these rights and standards, they must submit legislation to parliament in order to do it, rather than just using Brexit as an excuse to scrap them on the sly with no democratic scrutiny whatever.
The Tories came together to defeat the amendment to add Clause 58 to the EU Withdrawal Bill by 311 votes to 299.
Why are you against Democracy Zlatan? isn't it good enough for you?

Thank you for proving you have no answer and rating the post Funny.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Telegraph
"
Prime Minister's policy chief 'resigns' days ahead of Budget and warns party lacks 'coherent economic programme'"

Whay would he know about it anyway?
And
"
Tory backlash as Cabinet agrees to increase £20bn Brexit divorce bill !
I wonder why?
And from the Express
"
Theresa May warned she faces a MASSIVE REBELLION if £36 billion divorce bill goes through
THERESA May is facing a massive rebellion and resignations from her government if she tries to push through a Brexit deal with a £36 billion divorce bill."

Strong and stable eh?
It's a misfortune for a nation to have ONE Conservative Government, but a calamity for a Nation that has TWO at one and the same time.
Come on you Right Wingers, which Government do you support?
The Government or the other lot infesting it's ranks?

A dislike from Zlatan and no answer as he hasn't one.

 

[Zlatan]

OG really going for it this morning...You can have some of my beta blockers if you wish OG..
I,ve got them on a repeat prescription, they,ll suit you.

And , you are right. I have no answer for you ...nobody has.

Anyhow, nice talking with you OG...getting on plane now... Bye.

 

[oldtom]

Let's just recap and see if there's any truth in what the tory government has told the nation over recent years. This little clip serves as a reminder of just a fraction of the blatant lies encouraging words they have used:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=539214239757301

Tom

 

[Steb]

I cannot believe that May is intending to give the EU another 20 billion. Surely neither Leavers or Remainers want this. This shower of a government are being blackmailed by the EU.
We should leave,not give them a penny more.
KudosDave

no, the blackmailing of the uk, all along, has been by the xenophobic racist wing of the tory party. have you recently tried to tell the bank you don't want any further part of your mortgage agreement and you want the house as well? much (probably most) of the uk's wealth is because its been part of the eu. foreign manufacturers (not only of cars and pharma) and research would not have been here otherwise. we probably owe more than the eu is asking for for all the benefits we've reaped from being part of the eu. on a happier note, we are not really leaving, it's a minor detour, a case of temporary insanity. like the uncouth yobs we really are we have thrown a temper tantrum, but we will no doubt return to our sense in time and see the light (after some "tough love")

 

[oldtom]

'The Guardian' produced this yesterday and it serves to demonstrate just how little the tory government cares about both the British people occupying the north of Ireland and our neighbours in the EU state of Ireland.

an-absolute-shambles-readers-on-the-irish-border-and-brexit

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

'The Guardian' produced this yesterday and it serves to demonstrate just how little the tory government cares about both the British people occupying the north of Ireland and our neighbours in the EU state of Ireland.

an-absolute-shambles-readers-on-the-irish-border-and-brexit

Tom

And the situation on our borders is no better
"
Belief that customs system will be ready for Brexit ‘borders on insanity’"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/belief-that-customs-system-will-be-ready-for-brexit-borders-on-insanity

 

[Danidl]

Its always a clever ploy when making a poor argument to repeat it over and over again OG. Well done.

On the animal welfare issue, you are doing exactly same as you,ve done throughout. You assume because somebody doesn't agree with this particular legislation then they must agree to bear baiting, dog fighting, animal vivisection and all types of animal cruelty. They dont, we don't need this legislation. I also wonder where we would be on the fight against cancer without all those beagles puffing away in the 60's. Yes, its cruel and I don't agree with it, but without some animal testing medical development, testing etc would be much slower.

Animal based medical testing from genetic experiments on fruitflies, to lab mice and rats and even higher level chimps etc is an integral part of science. The British seem to have an exaggerated regard for animals, possibly as a result of being an urban society. If you don't know where your food comes from you are likely to make these uninformed comments.
One of our leading Irish jockies made a comment a few years ago that horse were horses and were not family pets and were not people. I remember him being castigated by UK media and concerned housewives.
For my part, I agree with animal based testing, I don't agree with wanton cruelty..so Ihave not apologies to make

 

[Danidl]

There were lies, Damned lies and this in the Guardian
Nissan to sue Vote Leave campaign over EU referendum flyer
Japanese carmaker to take legal action after its name and logo were used on leaflets urging voters to back Brexit



A British-made Nissan Micra painted in a Union Jack. The carmaker wants Britain to remain in the EU.

• 
  Nissan is to take legal action against the Vote Leave campaign after the Japanese carmaker’s logo was used on leaflets calling for voters to back Brexit in Thursday’s referendum.
  
  On one flyer the Nissan logo appeared next to those of four other major companies, including Unilever and Vauxhall, with the message: “Major employers … have all said they’ll stay in the UK whatever the result of the referendum.”
  
  Nissan, which wants Britain to remain in the EU, announced on Monday it was issuing legal proceedings to stop Vote Leave from using its name and logo and to “prevent them making any further false statements and misrepresentations concerning Nissan”.

And this too
"
Brexit: Electoral Commission launches inquiry into leave campaign funding
Watchdog has ‘reasonable grounds to suspect offence was committed’ by Vote Leave and student campaigner who received £625,000 from group

Sufficient time has elapsed since the referendum for writs to have been served, so unless Nissan has done so, and or the electoral commission has reported back, both these " stories " from these two images would be " fake news" There are sufficient real evidence, attributed to real people , to illustrate the level of untruths told by the leave campaign.
I now note that the electoral commission seems yesterday to have been furnished with new information, so the " fake news " statement is premature

 

[oldtom]

For my part, I agree with animal based testing, I don't agree with wanton cruelty..so Ihave not apologies to make

I take a different view from you on that matter 'Danidl'. I'm afraid I can't determine how one is possible without the other and I don't trust the research scientists to make the distinction.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

And the situation on our borders is no better

It has been evident right from the word go that the government is wholly ill-prepared for 'Brexit'. With every day that passes, the prospects for post-'Brexit' life seem to worsen and we have arrived at a point where the culprits in this fiasco are perversely attempting to blame the EU for creating difficulties.

The government has no answers to the various stumbling blocks that should all have been exhaustively considered and resolved before initiating A50. The UK is now seen as a pathetic laughing stock by other countries due to the incompetence displayed by our PM and her hand-picked negotiators in the Brussels talks. That perception of the UK is reflected in the news that we have lost our seat on the UN international panel of judges, always having had a representative there since 1946.

uk-politics-42063664

There can be no doubt that the UK as a major power in this 21st century is something only in the minds of the jingoistic fools who voted to leave the EU, imagining that the UK could not only survive but indeed prosper on its own. They were fools to have believed the nastiest, lying fascists who promoted the idea and many still can't accept their foolhardiness.

It is madness!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Because there is no answer, good of you to admit it!

I'm astonished OG! Trolls have passports!! Whatever next?

Tom

 

[Georgew]

• READ MORE

David Davis 'must be joking if he wants EU to compromise on Brexit'
“The legal consequence of Brexit is that the UK financial service providers lose their EU passport. This passport allows them to offer their services to a market of 500 million consumers and 22 million businesses."

The pronouncement is bad news for the City, where over 5,400 British firms rely on passporting rights to bring in £9 billion in revenue every year to Britain. The BBA has said the loss of passporting would be “disruptive, costly and time-consuming”.

It also comes the same day as the EU announces where it will relocating the European Banking Authority, an EU agency currently based in London, after Brexit.

Danidl.....BULLYING BY THE EU...
Tusk and Barnier have got this all wrong if they think such threats will sway the UK electorate....if anything it will strengthen our resolve to rid ourselves of this bullying EU....Brits dont like being threatened.
I have friends in the City,moving these contracts away from London is not easy,London is very good at these tasks,Paris is too expensive and tax ridden,Frankfurt is boring.
KudosDave[/QUOTE]

I cannot believe that May is intending to give the EU another 20 billion. Surely neither Leavers or Remainers want this. This shower of a government are being blackmailed by the EU.
We should leave,not give them a penny more.
KudosDave

I take it that you do not believe in "contracts" as such when you talk of bullying and blackmail.
What the EU are demanding was clearly stated in the conditions when the UK joined the EU.......now you may not like this but it is a fact. This article was written in 2016 and makes clear the UK's contractual obligations.

"UK could owe EU up to €65 billion after Brexit
Budget obligations will have to be fulfilled, the EU will tell Britain."
"A large portion of Britain’s bill will go toward the pensions of EU civil servants — not just Brits, but all EU nationals working for the European institutions. The U.K. had agreed to contribute about 15 percent of the EU budget that covers pensions for Eurocrats.


On top of that, the U.K. will be billed for infrastructure projects. The Commission and Council are expecting the U.K. to pay its share toward projects across Europe that were agreed while the U.K. was still a member. This includes subsidies for farmers.

The U.K. will have to fulfill its contribution to the Investment Plan for Europe — dubbed the Juncker Plan — for projects on the environment, infrastructure, innovation and small businesses.

The U.K. was one of the biggest contributors to the plan, coughing up €6 billion, but it’s also one of the biggest beneficiaries."
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-could-owe-eu-up-to-e65-billion-after-brexit-theresa-may-juncker-plan/

 

[oldgroaner]

Animal based medical testing from genetic experiments on fruitflies, to lab mice and rats and even higher level chimps etc is an integral part of science. The British seem to have an exaggerated regard for animals, possibly as a result of being an urban society. If you don't know where your food comes from you are likely to make these uninformed comments.
One of our leading Irish jockies made a comment a few years ago that horse were horses and were not family pets and were not people. I remember him being castigated by UK media and concerned housewives.
For my part, I agree with animal based testing, I don't agree with wanton cruelty..so Ihave not apologies to make

Sorry but the notion that animals do not have emotions nor feel pain is so obviously stupid it beggars belief, you own eyes will provide all the evidence you need to prove that

We know where our food comes from, we also know very well it is thinly disguised cruelty that we should by now have consigned to the dustbin of history.

Our nature is omnivorous, that can't be helped, but needless cruelty and denigrating animals to excuse their use in Science is morally unsupportable, however convenient it may appear.

It is not uniformed comment to tell the truth,
Humans treat animals deplorably, always have and no doubt unless stopped always will, but the very least we can do is accept they have a right to life, recognise and accept their true nature, and accept our responsibilities to them, as all organic life on the planet is related.