Brexit, for once some facts.

[PeterL]

I think it's pretty well understood that when we speak of "free" in this context we are already aware that we pay for these things through general taxation.
That said when you describe such things as "Gerrymandering" you are clearly confused as the term is applied to fixing electoral boundaries in order to gain political advantage.......quite a different thing altogether.
As regards free education however, for your information we in Scotland have a long-standing tradition of free education embodied in the concept of the "Lad o' pairts". This means that any young person having the ability to pursue a higher education....should not be disbarred from this by a lack of funds. The thinking behind this is that the whole of society will eventually benefit from our young people being highly educated and indeed history shows that this has been the case as witnessed by the Scottish Renaissance. I myself have benefitted from this philosophy and have never ceased to be grateful.
This is something you should be aware of when you blether on about "free this or that......and particularly so if you are an adopted citizen of this country.

Good for you and I have no issue with making sure those that will benefit get educated and if that means paying for them so be it. But, it's not that simple is it, plenty of my friends benefited in this way, became lawyers or whatever. Unfortunately, I don't think you will find that free University education in Scotland has quite worked out the way you describe. The numbers are severely capped with the result that there are less 'poor' students than ever going to University. Sounds good though.

We'll ignore the rest.

 

[oldgroaner]

Thanks Dan, very balanced. Unfortunately we (UK) do seem to be confrontational and none more so than on here where it is difficult to have rational comment without an element of civil war taking place. Perhaps that's exactly what we need to bring a sense of reality. Who knows, just be very glad when its all over.

Of course it would help if you tipped in with the occasional rational comment instead of pretending to be the soul of virtue and good taste.

 

[PeterL]

Of course it would help if you tipped in with the occasional rational comment instead of pretending to be the soul of virtue and good taste.

I can't help it, unlike you I'm a nice guy - unless someone upsets me - be careful, I'm trained to kill!

 

[oldgroaner]

Sounds brilliant, can you do anything for OG ?

Your need is infinitely greater than mine

 

[PeterL]

Your need is infinitely greater than mine

His needs are complicated - yours aren't.

 

[oldgroaner]

I can't help it, unlike you I'm a nice guy - unless someone upsets me - be careful, I'm trained to kill!

I didn't realise speaking nonsense had been weaponised, but if you say it is, it must be true, although nice guys don't usual brag that they are trained to kill, as any blithering idiot can learn to do that.
Am I supposed to be impressed?

 

[oldgroaner]

His needs are complicated - yours aren't.

There is truth in that, I just need people like you to see Brexit is the biggest confidence trick worked on the gullible in our entire history.

 

[oldtom]

Nothing changes with you does it! See if you can work this out - KARPCURI

You'll have to make them harder than that soldier, if you'll excuse the pun.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

I can't help it, unlike you I'm a nice guy - unless someone upsets me - be careful, I'm trained to kill!

Yes, of course you are......isn't that what military training is for? Have you forgotten to take your medicine today?

Tom

 

[PeterL]

You'll have to make them harder than that soldier, if you'll excuse the pun.

Tom

Like it - quick as a wink!

 

[Zlatan]

Wink ???

OG thought was almost an instruction...be more careful Peter...He,ll be pushing string again...

 

[Georgew]

Good for you and I have no issue with making sure those that will benefit get educated and if that means paying for them so be it. But, it's not that simple is it, plenty of my friends benefited in this way, became lawyers or whatever. Unfortunately, I don't think you will find that free University education in Scotland has quite worked out the way you describe. The numbers are severely capped with the result that there are less 'poor' students than ever going to University. Sounds good though.

We'll ignore the rest.

Once again you are misinformed....what your Tory politicians and the Unionist press are complaining about is exactly the opposite.

"SNP ministers have been accused of “social engineering” after the number of middle-class students winning a place in a Scottish university on exam results day dropped while the total from poor backgrounds increased."

"Following the publication of Scotland’s exam results yesterday, university admissions body Ucas produced figures showing an increase of 470 in the number of applicants from the poorest backgrounds who won a place at a Scottish university."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/08/middle-class-admissions-scottish-universities-drop-exam-results/

Look....I'm a sensitive soul and am beginning to feel guilty having to continually point out your mistakes...it's making me appear better at this than I really am. If you can forward your posts to me before you press send I'd be happy to amend them for publication.....I know it's kind of me but that's who I am.

 

[oldgroaner]

Joke of the Day from the Independent
"In his speech to a German audience Mr Davis warned against putting "politics before prosperity" and said Theresa May had already "explained a bold ambition for the form of our future relationship".

Actually that's a Quotable Quote with a just little "modding"
Brexit: putting Politics before prosperity"

 

[PeterL]

Once again you are misinformed....what your Tory politicians and the Unionist press are complaining about is exactly the opposite.

"SNP ministers have been accused of “social engineering” after the number of middle-class students winning a place in a Scottish university on exam results day dropped while the total from poor backgrounds increased."

"Following the publication of Scotland’s exam results yesterday, university admissions body Ucas produced figures showing an increase of 470 in the number of applicants from the poorest backgrounds who won a place at a Scottish university."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/08/middle-class-admissions-scottish-universities-drop-exam-results/

Look....I'm a sensitive soul and am beginning to feel guilty having to continually point out your mistakes...it's making me appear better at this than I really am. If you can forward your posts to me before you press send I'd be happy to amend them for publication.....I know it's kind of me but that's who I am.

I'm sensitive too and don't need the sarcasm thanks. Having now read the DT link I can see you're right, certainly when compared to earlier reports albeit there are some questions remaining about the cap on numbers.

Nice to think that you have a sense of humour.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The EU is constantly accusing the UK of not progressing the negotiations....that is political speak for us not coming up with enough cash.
By now some team with a pad and calculator should have calculated how much we legally owe the EU,not a penny more nor a penny less.
Ok that has sorted out the money bit,we tell them that is all they are going to get,take it or leave it.
The Irish border is easy,we do nothing,trade will continue exactly as it does today,businesses will sort out a mechanism to trade because they have to...in about 5 years time governments will catch up and probably mess the status quo.
If the UK trade under WTO rules it will sort itself out....I buy goods from Germany,France,Taiwan,China and the U.K.....we are constantly moving source of supply,China is getting expensive for some product,France is expensive because of the weakness of the £ v Euro. Brexit will be no different if high tariffs make EU product ,especially food,we will buy from elsewhere.....similarly the EU importers will look elsewhere from the UK if tariffs make UK goods expensive but the current £ weakness is keeping us competitive. It will be short term messy but don't underestimate our abilities for trading,we will soon adapt.
We should stop chasing after the EU for this free trade deal.....Chilean wine is just as nice as French,we can buy cars from South Korea,Lamb from New Zealand,China can supply us just about everything....but we won't because the EU will chase after us when their producers and manufacturers lose our business.
David Davis is the right guy at the moment,his lay back style must be so frustrating to Barnier and Co.....he is right these things will be sorted at the last minute,we shouldn't panic at this stage.
I am still a remainer but if we are to have this Brexit experiment let's quit with pride.
KudosDave

 

[tommie]

At the end of the day the EU depend on the UK, the ROI depend on the UK...

you can easily tell by who`s shouting loudest at the moment,

do you think if it was Greece leaving Brussels would be at panic stations?! Don`t think so...

so no need to let the tail wag the dog.

 

[oldgroaner]

The EU is constantly accusing the UK of not progressing the negotiations....that is political speak for us not coming up with enough cash.
By now some team with a pad and calculator should have calculated how much we legally owe the EU,not a penny more nor a penny less.
Ok that has sorted out the money bit,we tell them that is all they are going to get,take it or leave it.
The Irish border is easy,we do nothing,trade will continue exactly as it does today,businesses will sort out a mechanism to trade because they have to...in about 5 years time governments will catch up and probably mess the status quo.
If the UK trade under WTO rules it will sort itself out....I buy goods from Germany,France,Taiwan,China and the U.K.....we are constantly moving source of supply,China is getting expensive for some product,France is expensive because of the weakness of the £ v Euro. Brexit will be no different if high tariffs make EU product ,especially food,we will buy from elsewhere.....similarly the EU importers will look elsewhere from the UK if tariffs make UK goods expensive but the current £ weakness is keeping us competitive. It will be short term messy but don't underestimate our abilities for trading,we will soon adapt.
We should stop chasing after the EU for this free trade deal.....Chilean wine is just as nice as French,we can buy cars from South Korea,Lamb from New Zealand,China can supply us just about everything....but we won't because the EU will chase after us when their producers and manufacturers lose our business.
David Davis is the right guy at the moment,his lay back style must be so frustrating to Barnier and Co.....he is right these things will be sorted at the last minute,we shouldn't panic at this stage.
I am still a remainer but if we are to have this Brexit experiment let's quit with pride.
KudosDave

Very humorous!
What kind of pride have we got left?
We have made ourselves look like a bunch of idiots and we should take pride in that?
No thanks.
If we want something to be proud about we should ask for Brexit to be cancelled and apologise.

 

[oldgroaner]

At the end of the day the EU depend on the UK, the ROI depend on the UK...

you can easily tell by who`s shouting loudest at the moment,

do you think if it was Greece leaving Brussels would be at panic stations?! Don`t think so...

so no need to let the tail wag the dog.

What makes you think Brussels are panicking at us leaving? they are more likely relieved as they will get trade with us on terms they have dictated and we can't be a bloody nuisance to them any more.
They are the ones on a winner, not us.

 

[Danidl]

At the end of the day the EU depend on the UK, the ROI depend on the UK...

you can easily tell by who`s shouting loudest at the moment,

do you think if it was Greece leaving Brussels would be at panic stations?! Don`t think so...

so no need to let the tail wag the dog.

Come on Tommie, in what way is the 27 nation EU dependent on 60 million in the UK. For every UK subject, there are 9 EU citizens.
Ireland's situation is more dependent... Close to 40% of our trade is with the UK.. more if you include the transfers accross the border. If you haven't yet done so, you should read the article about David Crockett..a staunch unionist farmer whose family has farmed straddling the border for hundreds of years. I referred to it earlier and you could pick it up on the Irish Times ...
And yes an ancestor of his came to an end at the Alamo.
Agriculture in NI including milk production will be severely hampered ....

If Ireland is shouting louder it's because we see the Trainwreck. When did the NI assembly put its Brexit contingency plan in place?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Very humorous!
What kind of pride have we got left?
We have made ourselves look like a bunch of idiots and we should take pride in that?
No thanks.
If we want something to be proud about we should ask for Brexit to be cancelled and apologise.

Agreed that the best deal is Remain but the EU could have ensured we stayed if they had offered some deal on immigration when Cameron went out with his begging bowl.
But that is in the past,we are looking like idiots because we are making the same mistake as Cameron and pandering to the EU.
Ireland is actually an ace card for the UK,if approached right....the Irish have a lot to lose re Brexit,it could bankrupt them,the EU will then have to support them like Greece,without the cash to do so. So we should leave it to the EU to sort out the border problem,the only realistic solution is to stay or have an FTD that is the same of staying. Actually because this government is either incompetent or appearing incompetent that is exactly the right solution to the border problem,it is Ireland who will ultimately be panicking for a solution,not England,that will put a lot of pressure on the EU. Note Tusk is elready panicking to get money out of the U.K.,I am sure he knows what a vulnerable cash situation is the EU,the Germans won't keep bailing out the others-see the current situation with Italy cash crisis.
It is the EU who should apologise for forcing the UK into the current Brexit position,but they like Cameron didn't think we would leave.
Some companies in the UK will suffer,that will be the old industries that can be easily replaced elsewhere, poor Brexiters working in these old industries will suffer,but these people tell us that they expected and in fact welcomed short term pain,the Rees-Moggs will ensure they suffer.
KudosDave