Read that again, you have a logic problem in that statement. Would that performance be linked to financial services and belonging to the EU?
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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My knowledge of history seems to have bypassed this chap whom I consider something of a hero of the common people. Sadly, his pre-arranged, post-death bequeathal to the Co-operative movement was challenged by his family through the courts and his wishes were duly overturned. What is the point of making a legally-valid will if one's wishes can be overturned by greedy, grasping people whom one wishes to deny one's fortune?
William Thompson (1775 – 28 March 1833) was an Irish political and philosophical writer and social reformer, developing from utilitarianism into an early critic of capitalist exploitation whose ideas influenced the Cooperative, Trade Union and Chartist movements as well as Karl Marx. Born into the Anglo-Irish Ascendancy of wealthy landowners and merchants of Cork society, his attempt to will his estate to the cooperative movement after his death sparked a long court case as his family fought successfully to have the will annulled.
Tom
William Thompson (1775 – 28 March 1833) was an Irish political and philosophical writer and social reformer, developing from utilitarianism into an early critic of capitalist exploitation whose ideas influenced the Cooperative, Trade Union and Chartist movements as well as Karl Marx. Born into the Anglo-Irish Ascendancy of wealthy landowners and merchants of Cork society, his attempt to will his estate to the cooperative movement after his death sparked a long court case as his family fought successfully to have the will annulled.
Tom
Remind me; what is the point of all this difficulty? I haven't had a laugh today....well, apart from the half-time score from The Emirates!
Tom
In general terms perhaps, but there is another view and it's the one the EU take. That is that a person's work is as much a commodity as an item, so should also benefit from a free flow across borders.
Where we are in a trap is with services on which we depend so much. We want access for our services into the EU, which intrinsically is a transfer of peoples work across the borders. So from the EU's point of view, how can they accept that transfer of peoples work either way while allowing us to ban the transfer of physical work which entails bodies crossing borders for that work to be carried out?
They've got us on that one.
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Now you're being as daft as the rest of the Looney Left on here. I'm quite capable of making my own mind up and generally I will pick and choose what policies I like and those that I dislike. Free prescriptions, would be free for me anyway, wherever I lived in the UK. Do I think that they are a good idea for everyone? No I don't, it's wasteful and from that fairly obvious that something else had to pay for it. I understand it was cancer treatment in this particular case. To my mind Free Prescriptions and indeed anything else that is 'Free' is little more than gerrymandering. As for criticising the Scottish Government, not sure that I have, as such, and certainly not in anyway that compares to the views expressed on here. Don't forget I chose to live in Dundee and I like it here.
Here is the difference between a government that cares for its people and the UK model:
It's absolutely sickening how the North Sea oil bonanza has been frittered away by successive neoliberal UK governments since 1979.
Norway has a population of just 5.3 million and they used their North Sea Oil bonanza to build the richest Sovereign Wealth Fund in the entire world!
Tom
It's absolutely sickening how the North Sea oil bonanza has been frittered away by successive neoliberal UK governments since 1979.
Norway has a population of just 5.3 million and they used their North Sea Oil bonanza to build the richest Sovereign Wealth Fund in the entire world!
Tom
Then we can't have access to sell them our services (peoples work), which is over a half of all our trade with them. They of course have already established that with Switzerland, who also wanted to block free physical movement but have their services peoples work allowed in. The EU rightly said no to that two faced attempt.
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I dont, but I get even less satisfaction when you deny the truth behind them,and support that shower of a Government you voted for despite continuously appearing new evidence of the total lash up they make of everything they get their squalid little claws into
And this from a Brexit voter?
Where was your "intrinsic justification" when you voted to Leave the EU?
It was not merely a choice, it was just a bet and by your own admission a chance to make a good little earner, with not interest or knowledge on your part as to the likely result.
You just hoped someone else knew how to plan for it and make it work.
"Who you gonna call?"
None of the Tory party have even the remotest idea of what to do, have they, when the best they can come up with is second hand old failed schemes .
In fairness, what I read and pickup on is moderated by the Irish press.. particularly the Irish Times... A completely different animal from any of the British Times newspapers. It is a trust and would have more liberal Anglo Irish high church social values than much of mainstream UK newspapers. Its what is termed a " paper of record" and would for instance publish selected court opinions, and appointments.and proceedings of the Anglican churches, meetings etc. . It is the paper as read by civil servants, business and political leaders.. they may well read others as well but it is the opinion former.. . I hope that doesn't offend them...
That said and knowing that not everyone in Ireland will share the exact same views ..
In Ireland, we are extremely concerned about Brexit, more so it would appear than are the British whose alarmist headlines from the tabloids are on about personalities. Articles published are on the likely detremental effects on cross border trade, agriculture, normalisation of relationships between groups in the north..
There is continual chiving by government agencies on getting companies to protect themselves from the effects of a Brexit..growing alternative markets, changing product mix etc and this started within weeks of the referendum. In other words it has been seen here as almost an existential crisis, and we are not best pleased by UK government responses.
In our opinion, Brexit in any form is bad and becomes worse the more distant the relationship with mainland Europe becomes. Ireland was a close ally in Europe of the UK and shared a number of common positions. There is a sense of betrayal and a recognition that irrespective of a few pleasant words, the UK totally ignores Ireland.
Much of the UK discussion, and even on this forum, is about the sum of money needed to pay off the EU. That is to totally misread the situation. The money is just the shorthand for seeing what committment the UK has to a relationship with Europe. If that cannot be recognised by the UK then there is no basis for discussion.
I have to confess 'Danidl', that summation of the posturing we have witnessed hadn't occurred to me in those terms. It makes a lot of sense.
Tom
Thanks Dan, very balanced. Unfortunately we (UK) do seem to be confrontational and none more so than on here where it is difficult to have rational comment without an element of civil war taking place. Perhaps that's exactly what we need to bring a sense of reality. Who knows, just be very glad when its all over.
Carrying on to one of Peter s queries
I get no feeling that our newspapers are feeding us a propaganda line in order to bolster an anti UK feeling ,or pro EU line .. but then if it were very skillfully done I wouldn't.. but please remember we can read everything from the UK as well as EU, so it is not likely
The Irish view point is that Brexit is an own goal , we don't want to facilitate it. An internal border is something which we abhor, but which we feel will be foisted on us, not by Europe but by the UK.
I do agree that certainly from our local perspective the Irish border issue will prove a defining moment. Blame is rather more difficult to see as being fair. I accept that it didn't get much, if any, thought in the referendum. Nothing much did. Truth be known, it was a very simple question which was later ratified by just about every MP in the HOC, no matter what Party. Simple questions usually are easily answered which explains much in life. That is not to say that they (questions) should all be difficult and the preserve of the educated - their record is no better. Actions are usually better than words...
The problem we now have is that there are literally thousands upon thousands of questions - I doubt all of them need answers just yet? The border does maybe, but we are where we are, goodwill surely exists on both sides and as I've said before, on Day 1 nothing will have changed - we need to take the politics out of this.
Were you wearing battle fatigues and pretending to be General Patton when you came up with that? I have to disagree with the premise anyway as my experience is that the right words have prevented many actions and mitigated casualties. The UK is somewhat short on diplomats these days, I have to say.
Tom
I think it's pretty well understood that when we speak of "free" in this context we are already aware that we pay for these things through general taxation.
That said when you describe such things as "Gerrymandering" you are clearly confused as the term is applied to fixing electoral boundaries in order to gain political advantage.......quite a different thing altogether.
As regards free education however, for your information we in Scotland have a long-standing tradition of free education embodied in the concept of the "Lad o' pairts". This means that any young person having the ability to pursue a higher education....should not be disbarred from this by a lack of funds. The thinking behind this is that the whole of society will eventually benefit from our young people being highly educated and indeed history shows that this has been the case as witnessed by the Scottish Renaissance. I myself have benefitted from this philosophy and have never ceased to be grateful.
This is something you should be aware of when you blether on about "free this or that......and particularly so if you are an adopted citizen of this country.
Sounds brilliant, can you do anything for OG ?