Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

Come on Tommie, in what way is the 27 nation EU dependent on 60 million in the UK. For every UK subject, there are 9 EU citizens.
Ireland's situation is more dependent... Close to 40% of our trade is with the UK.. more if you include the transfers accross the border. If you haven't yet done so, you should read the article about David Crockett..a staunch unionist farmer whose family has farmed straddling the border for hundreds of years. I referred to it earlier and you could pick it up on the Irish Times ...
And yes an ancestor of his came to an end at the Alamo.
Agriculture in NI including milk production will be severely hampered ....

If Ireland is shouting louder it's because we see the Trainwreck. When did the NI assembly put its Brexit contingency plan in place?

But so many of the 27 nations are dependent upon the EU,especially those in the 'olive oil' belt. The loss of the U.K. 's input leaves Germany the only major contributor. I am sure Ireland is letting the EU know that the loss of trade with the U.K. will be devastating for Ireland and that any shortfall will have to be made up by the EU.....good reason for Ireland to put a lot of pressure on the EU to speed up an FTD with the U.K. ....I wonder whether David Davis knows this,hence he is ignoring the border problem.
Sorry not nice for Ireland to be a bargaining chip but that is politics.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

What makes you think Brussels are panicking at us leaving? they are more likely relieved as they will get trade with us on terms they have dictated and we can't be a bloody nuisance to them any more.
They are the ones on a winner, not us.

Except when we leave where are the funds coming from to support the Spanish,Italians,Greeks,EE....my German customers are sick of bailing out the 'lazy sun worshippers',they don't need another.
The EU will sell their soul for money,but they think they have the upper hand at the moment,Tusk is the only one who seems to be showing signs of panic...time for them to listen to the clicking clock.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mind you Hammonds key proposals are tax on plastics and driverless cars,if that is the extent of his imagination?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The EU's Five Wise Men have advised Merkel to try to delay Brexit until March 2020 to avoid the cash crisis about to hit the EU....the Italians are looking for 42 billion Euros and Tusk wants lots of Euros to pay for his EU army.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

But so many of the 27 nations are dependent upon the EU,especially those in the 'olive oil' belt. The loss of the U.K. 's input leaves Germany the only major contributor. I am sure Ireland is letting the EU know that the loss of trade with the U.K. will be devastating for Ireland and that any shortfall will have to be made up by the EU.....good reason for Ireland to put a lot of pressure on the EU to speed up an FTD with the U.K. ....I wonder whether David Davis knows this,hence he is ignoring the border problem.
Sorry not nice for Ireland to be a bargaining chip but that is politics.
KudosDave

the loss of the UK is bad for the EU but they (EU27) are not pressed for time like we are. If they can introduce taxation across the EU (like the transaction tax) then the problem of making up for the loss of future UK's contribution would be easy. What worries me is the attitude of our own government - they treat the negotiation like buying a property or buying a container of bikes or a game, they indulge themselves in bluffs. What they would like the EU to give them is not possible, DC did the same.
There is a majority support for soft brexit, not just in Parliament but also in the electorate.

 

[Woosh]

what are we looking for in a deal with the EU?

1. guaranteed market access
2. shared regulations

We must accept a degree of shared sovereignty if we want to share the same regulations.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is a majority support for soft brexit, not just in Parliament but also in the electorate.

I suspect that is not true, people either don't give a damn
"As usual" or the majority are now against Brexit.
They can't all be like some of the Right wingers on here, seeing only mythical Pound signs from mythical trade deals and a mythical highly motivated, ethical and socally well disposed Government.
One that has morphed from a rabid hyaena into a Proud Lion overnight.

 

[oldgroaner]

Zlata has set a new Topic record, he gave me 22 dislikes in 11 minutes last night beginning with a comment I made on Jun 6 2016, remarkable as he didn't join until Nov 26th 2016.
And as he so often does he changed his mind and was critical of my posts that he had previously ignored.
What prompted such odd behavior, which is a bit futile don't you think?
Now that you have done that which Moniker would you prefer?
Trawler or
Troller?
You are definitely the best entertainment on here , we never know what sort of jolly jape to expect from you.

And this morning he's at it again! something must have gone wrong on the dark side of the mirror to upset him.

 

[oldgroaner]

what are we looking for in a deal with the EU?

1. guaranteed market access
2. shared regulations

We must accept a degree of shared sovereignty if we want to share the same regulations.

While what you say is true, it's no substitute for EU membership is it?
And I don't think that the Government can get an internal majority to favour that outcome, do you?

 

[oldgroaner]

Zlatan, this latest nonsense may amuse you and it does me, but has the thought occurred to you that you are damaging access to the latest posts on the thread by posting all these backdated dislikes?
You are making yourself not just a nuisance to them, but looking foolish yourself and to look like a Troll
Now I haven't accused you of that before have I?
But by this disruptive action that affects all other contributors you will end up being though of as one.
Sorry but if you want people to hit the ignore button
feel free to carry on by all means.

 

[oldtom]

For those who may have ever wondered what happens to all the donations made to 'Children in Need', (and you should!), you might be interested in this FOI request for a previous year's edition of that despicable and cruel confidence trick perpetrated by the government's major propaganda provider the BBC's annual charitable fundraiser.

The response is here:

staff_salaries_and_expenses_for

Please take the trouble to read thoroughly and then consider the case for exemption under the act.

Tom

ps the very last passage at the foot of the page may be of interest to some.

 

[oldgroaner]

For those who may have ever wondered what happens to all the donations made to 'Children in Need', (and you should!), you might be interested in this FOI request for a previous year's edition of that despicable and cruel confidence trick perpetrated by the government's major propaganda provider the BBC's annual charitable fundraiser.

The response is here:

staff_salaries_and_expenses_for

Please take the trouble to read thoroughly and then consider the case for exemption under the act.

Tom

ps the very last passage at the foot of the page may be of interest to some.

No exemption should be allowed of the accounts of the BBC

 

[Zlatan]

OG
You are correct, I came very late to thread, I,ll assume your dates are correct. I decided to scan read from beginning, it soon became apparent there was a,fairly large group of people attempting to discuss Brexit rationally. One person was condescending to point of offensive and another down right offensive from start. I disagreed with your attitude in every single post, the content is identical your current . Since it seems to have upset you so much, I think I,ll continue. ( my original gradings were actually neutral, bearing in mind your latest offerings I,ll change them to negative.)

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
You are correct, I came very late to thread, I,ll assume your dates are correct. I decided to scan read from beginning, it soon became apparent there was a,fairly large group of people attempting to discuss Brexit rationally. One person was condescending to point of offensive and another down right offensive from start. I disagreed with your attitude in every single post, the content is identical your current . Since it seems to have upset you so much, I think I,ll continue. ( my original gradings were actually neutral, bearing in mind your latest offerings I,ll change them to negative.)

Sorry Zlatan, but you have confirmed Tom's opinion of you that you are nothing more than a trouble making Troll.
I have noticed how silly your actions have become and asked you in your own interests to desist, amusing though it is.
If I was a simple minded as you are, I too could go back and put a disagree against every single post you have made.

Basically you have nothing to contribute on here that is positive, yet cannot see that.
Do us all a favour and go elsewhere to make a nuisance of yourself.
When you have finished disliking all my posts, what will you do next?

You still don't know how to post on topic and still offer nothing positive in favour of Brexit.
And this latest action of yours is quite obviously a rather childish attempt to annoy me.

Don't bother, just try to post a pragmatic, thought through and logical reason in support of Brexit that will stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Danidl]

Agreed that the best deal is Remain but the EU could have ensured we stayed if they had offered some deal on immigration when Cameron went out with his begging bowl.
But that is in the past,we are looking like idiots because we are making the same mistake as Cameron and pandering to the EU.
Ireland is actually an ace card for the UK,if approached right....the Irish have a lot to lose re Brexit,it could bankrupt them,the EU will then have to support them like Greece,without the cash to do so. So we should leave it to the EU to sort out the border problem,the only realistic solution is to stay or have an FTD that is the same of staying. Actually because this government is either incompetent or appearing incompetent that is exactly the right solution to the border problem,it is Ireland who will ultimately be panicking for a solution,not England,that will put a lot of pressure on the EU. Note Tusk is elready panicking to get money out of the U.K.,I am sure he knows what a vulnerable cash situation is the EU,the Germans won't keep bailing out the others-see the current situation with Italy cash crisis.
It is the EU who should apologise for forcing the UK into the current Brexit position,but they like Cameron didn't think we would leave.
Some companies in the UK will suffer,that will be the old industries that can be easily replaced elsewhere, poor Brexiters working in these old industries will suffer,but these people tell us that they expected and in fact welcomed short term pain,the Rees-Moggs will ensure they suffer.
KudosDave

If you accept the validity of your first sentence, can you not therefore accept that the remainder is tripe.?
The UK will hit international legal difficulties , not just EU ones, if they attempt to bypass the Anglo Irish agreement( the so called Good Friday Agreement). That agreement was predicated on the assumption that both the UK and Ireland were members of the EU. There are a number of clauses in it and a range of rights ,committee, and councils . It is not open to unilateral repudiation. .
In my earlier posting I suggested that the money is not the overriding consideration that you think it is. When there is a need , money can always be found or diverted.
You use the word panicking describing the behaviour of EU officials, I would substitute being highly flustrated as the emotional state. Here we are nearly a year into the process and there are no suggestions that the UK has engaged in the process. If you have ever had the difficulty of dealing with a drunk or mentally ill person, one find it a very trying process. The EU is presumably attempting to negotiate with a schizophrenic UK team. The professional civil servants know, as do you also that remaining is the best option, their political masters are flipping and flopping , because neither faction has a clear majority and they don't actually know what they want.they have no mandate other than somehow to create an acceptable Brexit.

 

[Danidl]

No exemption should be allowed of the accounts of the BBC

I have grown increasingly suspicious of organised charities.

 

[PeterL]

For those who may have ever wondered what happens to all the donations made to 'Children in Need', (and you should!), you might be interested in this FOI request for a previous year's edition of that despicable and cruel confidence trick perpetrated by the government's major propaganda provider the BBC's annual charitable fundraiser.

The response is here:

staff_salaries_and_expenses_for

Please take the trouble to read thoroughly and then consider the case for exemption under the act.

Tom

ps the very last passage at the foot of the page may be of interest to some.

Tom

I too have an interest on how these charities use the money. However in this case I suspect that you may have been unfair, irrespective of how the BBC themselves chose to answer the FOI request.

All charities have to register with the Charities Commission and here is the report submitted by the BBC for the year in question

Children in Need

Seems to me that they did rather well albeit using such as GiftAid to cover their related expenses, not an small sum by any means.

 

[Kudoscycles]

If you accept the validity of your first sentence, can you not therefore accept that the remainder is tripe.?
The UK will hit international legal difficulties , not just EU ones, if they attempt to bypass the Anglo Irish agreement( the so called Good Friday Agreement). That agreement was predicated on the assumption that both the UK and Ireland were members of the EU. There are a number of clauses in it and a range of rights ,committee, and councils . It is not open to unilateral repudiation. .
In my earlier posting I suggested that the money is not the overriding consideration that you think it is. When there is a need , money can always be found or diverted.
You use the word panicking describing the behaviour of EU officials, I would substitute being highly flustrated as the emotional state. Here we are nearly a year into the process and there are no suggestions that the UK has engaged in the process. If you have ever had the difficulty of dealing with a drunk or mentally ill person, one find it a very trying process. The EU is presumably attempting to negotiate with a schizophrenic UK team. The professional civil servants know, as do you also that remaining is the best option, their political masters are flipping and flopping , because neither faction has a clear majority and they don't actually know what they want.they have no mandate other than somehow to create an acceptable Brexit.

The EU is threatening the UK that the UK will not get a free trade deal unless it comes up with more money.....Hammonds interview on the Marr show today said that the UK will satisfy its commitments,that surely is a calculable sum,at the moment £18billion,the EU appear to want a lot more.
We (David Davis) is saying that the Irish border problem is easily solved by a FTD EU-UK.....so the solution is easy for the EU,pick up the £18 billion and start talking about the FTD,with an agreement that it will be settled by March 2019.
At the moment my business is booming,I have just finished the NEC Classic Show....the boom was coming from Irish customers flying over to Birmingham from Dublin,the strength of the Euro v weak £ making UK goods very cheap. I have customers in the north who are very busy with Irish customers taking goods back across the border.
If we 'crash out' of the EU I assume that all EU customers will be sold to on rest of the world terms....that means that we will zero rate exports,if there is no customs border between the north and south nobody will be collecting import vat into the south,that will make north goods 20% cheaper than current,the EU cannot allow that situation to exist for long,the same situation will exist Dover-Calais....if the EU put the anticipated 54% tariff on e-bikes into the EU,then we could continue with the current 6% duty,with the strength of the Euro that will make electric bikes in the north substantially cheaper than in the south.
I agree that the current Remain situation is the best,not only for financial reasons but also for social reasons,next best is a FTD that closely resembles Remain,next best is 'crash out',a bad deal for the UK controlled by the EU is the worst option and in this I agree with May that 'a bad deal is worse than no deal'.
Let's be honest the EU is desperate for our money,the longer these negotiations take the more pressure on the EU to accept a mutually good FTD. I am not happy where we are but the UK must stand its ground to achieve a fair deal for the UK,Ireland is unfortunately the 'meat in the sandwich'.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

I have grown increasingly suspicious of organised charities.

I have very long been, backed by some first hand hard evidence over many decades. As a result I give to none of them, despite being a major contributor to charitable causes throughout. For example, despite being a pensioner I will have given between £4500 and £5000 this year, but all of it targeted into actual benefit for the recipient causes with not a penny going in salaries. During my working life it was much more, all given on the same basis. Obviousy it's much more work to do that, but also much more satisfying.

Old Tom is right about the Children In Need campaign the BBC runs as a form of cheap programming to fill time slots. A few years ago they made a comment that was very revealing, saying it was so much work to distribute the money that it took an entire year, finishing just in time to start again.

Of course it did, the staff made damn sure of that to ensure they stayed in their paid jobs permanently.
.

 

[PeterL]

Sorry Zlatan, but you have confirmed Tom's opinion of you that you are nothing more than a trouble making Troll.
I have noticed how silly your actions have become and asked you in your own interests to desist, amusing though it is.
If I was a simple minded as you are, I too could go back and put a disagree against every single post you have made.

Basically you have nothing to contribute on here that is positive, yet cannot see that.
Do us all a favour and go elsewhere to make a nuisance of yourself.
When you have finished disliking all my posts, what will you do next?

You still don't know how to post on topic and still offer nothing positive in favour of Brexit.
And this latest action of yours is quite obviously a rather childish attempt to annoy me.

Don't bother, just try to post a pragmatic, thought through and logical reason in support of Brexit that will stand up to scrutiny.

Come on OG you can surely be nicer than this? Such a response is totally over the top and verging on being nasty.