Fair point, trust is everything in these matters, but there are spivs and cheats everywhere, on both sides of the border. Trust is wonderful, and the best way of ensuring it is by constant vigilance, . There is another problem, were the UK to agree to a USA based agricultural deal, which it will almost certainly be negotiating, the compliance requirements are not only different but fundamentally opposed to the European food model. The UK and particularly the NI section cannot serve two masters.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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There are two ways such a reunification could happen, what happens if we down south reject you lot joining us?
More seriously it would be wrong on so many levels having a border at Liverpool, and cairnryan that the UK as a whole, remaining within the single market becomes more and more attractive!
The figure can not include offshore, its FDI, and any that went would be a debit and so lower figure...( the figure is net, debits ie sold investments have to be subtracted to produce an actual figure..
Its called Foreign Direct Investment for a reason OG...)
The whole point of offshore is to hide the investment. Going via FDI would be pretty stupid. ( and as I,ve said would reduce FDI when it went)
I think you win the reward for negativity and I dont think you quite understand the fantastic world wide reputation our financial houses have earned , by being exactly the opposite you are portraying them. Firms like Hargreaves Lansdown have spent years developing fine reputations. Don't discredit it OG. At the moment , sadly, they are all we have, owing to the lack of investment in anything else.
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Thats why I discredit it; it gives an illusion that all is well, when in fact the country is living as a Parasitic Growth on others.
It can so easily disappear like a morning mist, and after Brexit there is no guarantee that won't happen is there?
I,ll stick to watching football tonight now OG...you never know, we might beat Germans.
The Dail was never a regional assembly. Neither was the Irish parliament that existed up to 1800. In the 100 years between 1800 and 1905, the decay that Dublin suffered was such that the Irish people agreed that never would they agree to letting a foreign government determine our destiny. .. midway during that period, which many in England would see as the Victorian golden age, we had the great famine and that hardened resolve.
If you are seeking parallels with Ireland's or England's EU membership .. don't bother, the EU has been much fairer, and Irish people are recognised as citizens, not subjects.
As a people, the Irish.. both North and south are pragmatic as well as Idealistic, were we as naïve as to believe such promises, as fair treatment from the English establishment we would end up like a part of Wales, not Kensington
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So you`re not letting a foreign government determine your destiny now, lol??!! Eh?the Irish people agreed that never would they agree to letting a foreign government determine our destiny. .. midway during that period, which many in England would see as the Victorian golden age, we had the great famine and that hardened resolve.
If you are seeking parallels with Ireland's or England's EU membership .. don't bother, the EU has been much fairer,and Irish people are recognised as citizens, not subjects.
Of course you are!! For a start didn`t they order you lot to have a second Lisbon Treaty referendum until you got the result right?!! So you scurried back to the polls under the threat of being dumped out, you were all bullied by the EU.
You`re all being told what to do, legislation, laws etc are being imposed on you by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.
At least at Westminster you could have a say as to how you want your region to be governed.... you could be another DUP, hold the balance of power
!You`ll never be citizens when you have dictatorship.
I bet that there are people in the City of London that don't agree with you on that point. If you are right then adieu financial services, the EU doesn't need London as a clearing house...
Hey a win win situation!
Tommie, I don't really know where to start..So you`re not letting a foreign government determine your destiny now, lol??!! Eh?
Of course you are!! For a start didn`t they order you lot to have a second Lisbon Treaty referendum until you got the result right?!! So you scurried back to the polls under the threat of being dumped out, you were all bullied by the EU.
You`re all being told what to do, legislation, laws etc are being imposed on you by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.
At least at Westminster you could have a say as to how you want your region to be governed.... you could be another DUP, hold the balance of power
You`ll never be citizens when you have dictatorship.
1. No they... Brussels did not order Ireland to have a second referendum. It might have been better if they had, then they would have been in practice for the Brexit one...
2. Faceless bureaucrates . I don't think so, if they were how could they have their snouts in the richness that is Luxembourg... As others from the Brexit camp have suggested. More seriously, there is a fully accountable civil service in the EU, reporting to a directly elected parliament and to an executive, directly selected by democratic governments throughput Europe. Contrast that with the current shambles in Westminster, where an executive which has not been voted into being by the parliament it is claiming to lead, held together by a dishonest set of promises, which may or may not materialize, as negotiated by the same DUP. I much prefer the arrangement down south and in Brussels...
3. We can agree that it is hard to be citizens in a dictatorship. What one are you referring to?
I have asolutely no interest in Football, and never have had.
The sheer scale of the EU experiment renders the entire system faceless. UK with its 60 million voters only represents ( at last EU estimate) 13% of EU. Yes , its a model of democracy, but becomes government of the people by "other" people.
Ofcourse its faceless and way more than Westminster , which is positively local by comparison. Watched the useless Lords last night. ( another level of redundant democracy filled with scroungers) but lots of faces were recognisable...by us all.
Tony Benn was perfectly correct in his summation of EU, he insisted it was not democratic " for us". UK could never change a thing in EU if we didn't like it. Democracy is much more than merely having influence and a lost voice.
If the country as a whole wants an issue changing we should not have to lobby Brussels, curry favour with Barnier and Junkers. We should have the sovereignty to make decisions. Its called self determination. EU supporters are happy to give that away and to a system that is actually untried.
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The tories of this country have long since eschewed any notion of 'Noblesse Oblige', replacing a previous generation's concerns for their fellow man of lesser birth with a singleminded determination to expand their personal wealth by deliberate avoidance of tax.
Once upon a time, some of those whose genius and/or serendipity brought great wealth upon themselves actually demonstrated their care for the poor people who toiled long hours in frequently dangerous conditions to create the wealth for their employer. As examples, I think of the Lever brothers, the Cadburys and Andrew Carnegie although there have been many others.
Those great individuals no longer exist in British society, the elite collectively believing they have a god-given right to enjoy great wealth and the trappings that brings, while leaving the improvement and welfare of ordinary people to charitable donations from those least able to give.
Tom
Again, more than a hint of truth / sense in this, but, that is of course true of just about any trade - no guarantees.
So, on that basis why choose to link this with Brexit, it could happen either way and you are in no way able to guarantee that opinion, either way.
If you're suggesting that we need more eggs in the basket, then fine, no problem with that.Why not say so instead of the medical preamble, no wonder the NHS is overloaded.
Come now, when the Banks are about to move to Frankfurt you ask why link this to Brexit?
Dear oh dear oh dear!
Yes, you're probably correct, such is inevitability. Sadly, our terms will not be as desirable as now. I pity the poor of this country whose money will buy even less than now though, having said that, they will be able to cheer and sustain themselves on all the sovereignty they want.
Tom
We have been over that ground so many times, that a furrow is worn. I ,we know the names of our local MEPs , I can go, were I so inclined to the local office of the EU, around the corner from the Dail,and I have knowledge of who our current EU Commissioner, elected by the Dail is. .. I don't particularly like him and his bluster, but I know who he is. I don't know the name of the official in the car tax office, who reminded me of my need to renew, so that person is nameless not faceless.
I can recognise the voices and faces of a number of Hollywood actors , but is just as meaningless as 48% as the people in a majority rule parliament.
I get the arguement about 13% representation.
Think for a moment about sovereignty. The UK has and retained sovereignty, were it not, then leaving the EU, instead of the monumental own goal, it is, it would be treason rebellion or sedition. Any of the commitments that the EU commission are seeking recompense for are those which in its sovereignty, the UK freely agreed to undertake. The amounts of money might be in dispute, but not the principles.
Could you be specific as to what if any issue the UK as a whole agreed on, and how and whether it was prevented by Brussels?
There is one section in your posting I find disturbing and that is a reference to" currying favour" with named individuals. It is disturbing because it exhibits a servile mentality. That one would lobby a parliament to make a case or bring something to notice, is very normal. The parliamentary parties are not all knowing so representations need to be made. But the notion that one would seek favours, by kowtowing is appalling in a democracy and is positively mediaeval.
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I know, they even allow cyclists in Eire to be motorised without a driving licence and m/c crash helmet, dreadful.
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