Brexit, for once some facts.

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
Tommie, both you and I and a growing number of unionists , particularly in the agricultural business field in N I agree that a hard border on the island of Ireland is a bad thing. Likewise the majority of unionists would likewise see a customs border between the mainland of the UK and Ireland, either North or South as a very bad thing
What we might disagree on is how to prevent it happening. There have been two articles in the Irish Times and rte recently, one describing how a border would economically damage a cross border farm... The David Crockett story, and the other how agricultural health hazards will increase unless there is joint or dual inspection of agricultural facilities on both sides of the border.
The only way is either for the UK to retain single market status or to create a set of understandings which has the same effect. .. joint validation of abbatoirs , and meat Packers, joint vetinary inspections. The latter would put additional burdens on the UK , without the benefit of being able to steer legislation
Surely this is not beyond an element of trust going forward? We certainly start in having identical systems and controls in place.
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
I think that's directly due to the perception of fairness for all, which includes doing one's share as well as receiving one's share. When society is unfair it's easy to excuse oneself taking advantage and not co-operating, as a compensation for the perceived unfairness.
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Totally agree with you - with rights come responsibilities. For whatever reason, perhaps our politics, particularly in the HOC being confrontational we do seem to have lost the plot, not just in the HOC either.
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
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Dundee
Dream on.

"British infrastructure projects seeking funds from the European Investment Bank will need to insure the bank against the risks of Brexit, its president said at the weekend, as he warned that Britain’s departure from the EU would damage its ability to fund infrastructure.

"He echoed warnings last week from the National Infrastructure Commission that the UK’s efforts to overhaul energy and transport infrastructure would be damaged by ejection from the EIB, as he signalled the bank would take a larger role in future in financing eurozone projects."

Speaking to the Financial Times on the sidelines of the IMF annual meetings, Mr Hoyer insisted that lending to UK projects would continue “while the UK is a shareholder and a member”, but said it was inevitable that lending to the UK would fall from recent levels of about £7bn a year."
https://www.ft.com/content/aaaaa9cc-b1b2-11e7-aa26-bb002965bce8
Our obligations would equally fall, we are not, overall, a beneficiary of the EU. We will be able to chose for ourselves where the money goes - hopefully, we will get it right. Perhaps, I should add that Scotland is unlikely to be an overall beneficiary either, should it go it alone.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Its a good job rest of world does not share OG and,George,s pessimism.
FDI ( foreign direct investment) has increased over last 4 years. In 2016 it was around £110 billion. Portfolio Investment ( of all origin ) was around same. The total invested in UK ( companies , markets, bonds , etc etc) was just over £600 billion for 2016..
Somebody thinks we are worth investing in...even if OG does not.
I,m saying that we should aim to increase those investments. Especially FDI. The revenue should be targeted at infrastructure and new take up companies. ( rather like Peter Hargreaves is now doing with his new company Whale investments)

If we spent rather more time looking for opportunity and positivity than doom and gloom I suspect we may all feel rather healthier.
There will be succeses out of EU.

Country has stagnated over last decade, we are becoming insular and negative . We really should not be. We are a rich nation and have all the things needed to be successful out of EU. Lets just get in with it.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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judging by their press conference today, it seems that our government and DD is playing chicken with the EU on the subject of divorce money. Someone is going to lose their job soon enough and that is not going to be Mr Barnier. Would it be TM or DD?
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
Its a good job rest of world does not share OG and,George,s pessimism.
FDI ( foreign direct investment) has increased over last 4 years. In 2016 it was around £110 billion. Portfolio Investment ( of all origin ) was around same. The total invested in UK ( companies , markets, bonds , etc etc) was just over £600 billion for 2016..
Somebody thinks we are worth investing in...even if OG does not.
I,m saying that we should aim to increase those investments. Especially FDI. The revenue should be targeted at infrastructure and new take up companies. ( rather like Peter Hargreaves is now doing with his new company Whale investments)
With you totally on this, not all politicians are bumbling idiots and many are able to see the bigger picture. Sooner we break out of the current malaise the better.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Its a good job rest of world does not share OG and,George,s pessimism.
FDI ( foreign direct investment) has increased over last 4 years. In 2016 it was around £110 billion. Portfolio Investment ( of all origin ) was around same. The total invested in UK ( companies , markets, bonds , etc etc) was just over £600 billion for 2016..
Somebody thinks we are worth investing in...even if OG does not.
I,m saying that we should aim to increase those investments. Especially FDI. The revenue should be targeted at infrastructure and new take up companies. ( rather like Peter Hargreaves is now doing with his new company Whale investments)

If we spent rather more time looking for opportunity and positivity than doom and gloom I suspect we may all feel rather healthier.
There will be succeses out of EU.
But not out of the UK
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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But not out of the UK

????
Not sure what you mean on this OG ?? Sorry.
The investment value I quoted was all coming into UK or UK reg companies. ( Yes over £600 billion a year)
It could be increased if such as Hargreaves were allowed to get on with it.
This is why EU wants us to stay, not for our good...but theirs.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
judging by their press conference today, it seems that our government and DD is playing chicken with the EU on the subject of divorce money. Someone is going to lose their job soon enough and that is not going to be Mr Barnier. Would it be TM or DD?
The apparent relaxed attitude may indicate that we are going to agree a sum already mutually known, but are portraying a tough approach to suit the hard Brexit lobby.

It's the N.I border that's the really knotty problem though. It could all too easily end up with a compromise that's practically unworkable.
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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It's the N.I border that's the really knotty problem though. It could all too easily end up with a compromise that's practically unworkable.
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it has to be a hard border after the transition period or a re-unified Ireland.
Or JC becomes the new PM.
 
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tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
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it has to be a hard border after the transition period or a re-unified Ireland.
Yes, it`s the only sensible solution, let the Dail become a regional assembly again, elect their MP`s to Westminster the same as all the other regions, the R.O.I. is too small to be left isolated on the fringes of europe,, it will be more prosperous within the confines of the UK again.
Ireland needs the UK more than it does the EU remember.

Great Britain is the primary marketplace for our local produce, accounting for over 72% of trade flows. It would be wrong for Northern Ireland to place barriers to trade with the rest of the UK with a population of over 65 million people in order to facilitate trade with the Republic of Ireland who have less than 5 million people. Tying N.I. to EU rules to placate the Republic of Ireland while the other regions follow a different path would devastate the local economy, ... a `border` running down the Irish Sea will never happen
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Tying N.I. to EU rules to placate the Republic of Ireland while the other regions follow a different path would devastate the local economy,
Sod the economy, you'd be able to ride pedelecs without a motorbike licence or crash helmet. :)

... a `border` running down the Irish Sea will never happen
Come on Tommie, do an Ian P. in true Unionist fashion ;)

never, never, never happen.
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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????
Not sure what you mean on this OG ?? Sorry.
The investment value I quoted was all coming into UK or UK reg companies. ( Yes over £600 billion a year)
It could be increased if such as Hargreaves were allowed to get on with it.
This is why EU wants us to stay, not for our good...but theirs.
And what pray is this money intended to be used for?
Remember that half UK registered companies are now under Foreign ownership.
How much will create industrial output as a percentage? and how much disappear into Ponzi schemes as usual?
 
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oldgroaner

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Jacob for a start, swiftly followed by George Osborne and even some on the Labour benches - got to go Black Tie event - not too many plebs there I hope! But it's in Fife George, so who knows.
Jakass? now I know you are not serious the man is a menace to the nation. And Osborne and his screwing the public but bribing the Bankers is even worse. And he's a bitter and twisted nutter at that.
I wanted a Serious answer not a comic quip in response.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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And what pray is this money intended to be used for?
Remember that half UK registered companies are now under Foreign ownership.
How much will create industrial output as a percentage? and how much disappear into Ponzi schemes as usual?
Give up OG...its investments. The money isn't destined for anything or anyone except the companies ( or whatever) the cash is invested in..
How long do you think we,d be attracting that level of investment if they were in ponzi schemes... Yes, there may be all sorts of tax fiddles..avoidance etc etc...but the point is Uk ltd is a commodity the whole world see as reliable worthwhile investments to tune of 100 billion a year ( for FDI). Its up to us to ensure that level of investment is used correctly..both from a point of making money for both ud and investors and using the dividend/ interest those investments produce wisely.
To just dismiss it out of hand as Ponzi is quite ridiculous...its up to us to utilize confidence shown in us. ( FDI has gone up since June 23rd...apparently India is investing heavily in UK !!)
 
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