Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Without Tony Benn there would have been no Concorde ...just like now really.( I suppose that's concorde though)
Or is OG going to change his opinions too ? Only OG could try and change a dead man's opinions...probably easier than changing mine , or Peter's or the other 17 million leavers, but good effort for trying OG...flogging a dead horse...takes on a new meaning..
( BTW TB was totally against EU, that must make Tom's mind boggle. A real socialist against EU ? Or is that Corbyn ? Labour's stance on most things is rather baffling, this one especially so)
I never realised Steb was such a comedian, its come as quite a shock. I,d pictured him as Russian KGB hit man ??
He,s actually very funny.
Plenty of room on the bus ...
And do they actually eat yogurt in Hull ??
You learn something everyday...

 

[PeterL]

You really are funny aren't you?
Get someone to explain what this means to you

"The founders of the ECSC were clear about their intentions for the Treaty, namely that it was merely the first step towards a ‘European Federation’.

Now what could European Federation Mean?
Could it be something along the lines of Russian Federation or Federal Germany?
Have another go, see what else you can come up with, it gets funnier each time.

I find you funny too, at times. The founders might have intended that albeit it seems to be little more than yet another opinion, that was just the original six members and yet two of them rejected the concept outright, France and Holland. Given that was in 2005 and Churchill died in 1965 you have assumed an awful lot.

The European Union: confederation, federation or association of compound states?
A Hayekian approach to the theory of constitutions

First Online: 31 March 2007

Abstract
The European Union of today is neither a confederation nor a federation, but rather an association of compound states. It is shown that this mixture of two forms of constitutional contracts implies inconsistencies prone to political deadlocks. A Buchanan/Tullock/Rawls approach to a reform suggests a clear choice between either a confederation or a federation. In this paper, however, it is proposed to follow a Hayekian approach in which issue fields are allocated to a confederation or to a federation, respectively depending on the revealed homogeneity of preferences of the citizens across the Member States. Hence both, Council and European Parliament, would remain the central decision makers but with separate tasks. Suggestions are made how to improve their election and their decision rules. The paper should contribute to the debate on reforming the European institutions which emerged after the rejection of the constitutional draft by the French and Dutch voters in 2005.

 

[PeterL]

and not just any old interest in dung, a connoisseur (bet it took a lot of rolling in faeces before you achieved this level of discrimination). but, back to brexit - you may enjoy rolling in it in a paddock with a dog to guide you - I don't fancy living in a society where that's the level of functioning.

I suspect I could smell you a mile away...

 

[PeterL]

Wouldn't have needed working out, any Conservative budget would do the trick.
.

Keeping it in the field - I think they call it, clearing up the mess the cow caused.

 

[Zlatan]

" Given that was in 2005 and Churchill died in 1965 you have assumed an awful lot."

Not for OG. He can change dead men,s opinions and thoughts. All in a day,s investigative posting. Its being creative Peter. He,s actually rather clever at it, you really do start to believe him, but then something like a fact comes along and ruins it..

 

[oldgroaner]

I find you funny too, at times. The founders might have intended that albeit it seems to be little more than yet another opinion, that was just the original six members and yet two of them rejected the concept outright, France and Holland. Given that was in 2005 and Churchill died in 1965 you have assumed an awful lot.

The European Union: confederation, federation or association of compound states?
A Hayekian approach to the theory of constitutions

First Online: 31 March 2007

Abstract
The European Union of today is neither a confederation nor a federation, but rather an association of compound states. It is shown that this mixture of two forms of constitutional contracts implies inconsistencies prone to political deadlocks. A Buchanan/Tullock/Rawls approach to a reform suggests a clear choice between either a confederation or a federation. In this paper, however, it is proposed to follow a Hayekian approach in which issue fields are allocated to a confederation or to a federation, respectively depending on the revealed homogeneity of preferences of the citizens across the Member States. Hence both, Council and European Parliament, would remain the central decision makers but with separate tasks. Suggestions are made how to improve their election and their decision rules. The paper should contribute to the debate on reforming the European institutions which emerged after the rejection of the constitutional draft by the French and Dutch voters in 2005.

Interesting, but quite obviously these are simply stages in a process of integration that will become unstoppable and in no way proves you were correct, does it?
All superstates arrive at that condition by degrees, and remember Cameron has negotiated an agreement against further integration for the UK.
Tell me now since that was already agreed, what was there to fear, if as you postulate the EU isn't going to form into a USE anyway?
You can't really have it both ways. can you?

 

[Steb]

I suspect I could smell you a mile away...

bet you go around smelling for dung all day long. but, to stretch the metaphor, that does not get you out of the paddock (brexit wont either, and there's so much more to life than rolling around in paddocks).

 

[oldgroaner]

" Given that was in 2005 and Churchill died in 1965 you have assumed an awful lot."

Not for OG. He can change dead men,s opinions and thoughts. All in a day,s investigative posting. Its being creative Peter. He,s actually rather clever at it, you really do start to believe him, but then something like a fact comes along and ruins it..

Facts? are you sure you would recognise one if you tripped over it?
Your a Brexiter "Facts who needs 'em, we have Faith on our side" remember?

 

[Steb]

Wouldn't have needed working out, any Conservative budget would do the trick.
.

perhaps this explains zlatan and the electorate's affinity for the Westminster system, a different set of prostitutes with whips every four years

 

[Zlatan]

perhaps this explains zlatan and the electorate's affinity for the Westminster system, a different set of prostitutes with whips every four years

Just put me straight Steb. Was Westminster going to be disbanded had we stayed in EU..I thought we were keeping both sets of prostitutes , which is at best hedonistic and worst very wasteful. Cant quite understand why we need two sets, surely one lot can do the job..

 

[PeterL]

Interesting, but quite obviously these are simply stages in a process of integration that will become unstoppable and in no way proves you were correct, does it?
All superstates arrive at that condition by degrees, and remember Cameron has negotiated an agreement against further integration for the UK.
Tell me now since that was already agreed, what was there to fear, if as you postulate the EU isn't going to form into a USE anyway?
You can't really have it both ways. can you?

Nor you of course. There was a time when I too thought that the USE was the way to go but, certainly not now, nor in the foreseeable future. Neither of us will see it happen and hopefully, neither will the great grandchildren.

 

[oldgroaner]

Nor you of course. There was a time when I too thought that the USE was the way to go but, certainly not now, nor in the foreseeable future. Neither of us will see it happen and hopefully, neither will the great grandchildren.

I really don't see what you have against the notion, but really it will happen anyway, there will be a USE and we will be part of it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just put me straight Steb. Was Westminster going to be disbanded had we stayed in EU..I thought we were keeping both sets of prostitutes.

What a lovely idea! get rid of the blighters!

 

[Danidl]

Flecc
I,m happy with our Uk model, why should anyone have right to force on me another level of democracy ( or layer ) which will in 10, 20,30 or 40 yrs time replace our model. You accept there are numerical failings in a democratic system but fail to see the larger the " union" the larger those failings. I do not want a 13% vote in EU thanks. I,m happy with UK democracy and all its faults.
You have no right to expect others to adopt what is a different model of democracy. Yes, by all means vote for which one but the fact is that vote was held last June and many like me felt the EU model of democracy was not desirable.
Being told EU model is fine etc etc etc has nothing to do with it. Its fine for you, I prefer ours.Thanks but no thanks.

That is probably the most coherent arguement presented for Brexit. No economics, no rationales just a plain gut feeling. Not amenable to rational arguement. I said as much to Woosh some thousands of posts ago...

 

[oldgroaner]

That is probably the most coherent arguement presented for Brexit. No economics, no rationales just a plain gut feeling. Not amenable to rational arguement. I said as much to Woosh some thousands of posts ago...

He need not worry about having more levels of Democracy placed over him, as when we re enter the EU the Westminster Flying Circus will be become redundant, UK parliament abolished as a politicial unit .and replaced with a County council.

The buildings sold and re opened as, in keeping with their historic purpose,
A House of Negotiable Affection

 

[Zlatan]

That is probably the most coherent arguement presented for Brexit. No economics, no rationales just a plain gut feeling. Not amenable to rational arguement. I said as much to Woosh some thousands of posts ago...

I think that was a compliment . Thanks Danid.

 

[Zlatan]

He need not worry about having more levels of Democracy placed over him, as when we re enter the EU the Westminster Flying Circus will be become redundant, UK parliament abolished as a politicial unit .and replaced with a County council.

The buildings sold and re opened as, in keeping with their historic purpose,
A House of Negotiable Affection

I,d have thought you,d say Brothels, but it seems they already are.

 

[Danidl]

I think that was a compliment . Thanks Danid.

It was recognition of an honest position... Not one I have sympathy for or agree with, but when "hardy comes to hardy " probably one shared by a significant fraction of the Brexit supporters.

 

[tillson]

I have just seen Simon Stevens (Chief Executive of the NHS) on the evening news. He was making a very eloquent and justified case for more money to be diverted to the NHS. He made repeated references to the Vote Leave bus which carried the £350 million promise. He was absolutely correct to do so.

The that complete hunt, Jeremy Hunt responded. He said IF there is a dividend as a result of Brexit, then it is right that some of that money should go to the NHS. What is the hunt on about? There will be more money for the NHS. It was promised. People’s votes were heavily influenced by this factor.

 

[oldgroaner]

I have just seen Simon Stevens (Chief Executive of the NHS) on the evening news. He was making a very eloquent and justified case for more money to be diverted to the NHS. He made repeated references to the Vote Leave bus which carried the £350 million promise. He was absolutely correct to do so.

The that complete hunt, Jeremy Hunt responded. He said IF there is a dividend as a result of Brexit, then it is right that some of that money should go to the NHS. What is the hunt on about? There will be more money for the NHS. It was promised. People’s votes were heavily influenced by this factor.

Absolutely correct!
And here are the exact words of Rupert Murdoch on that subject"Murdoch said that if Johnson backtracked on promises made during the referendum campaign on serious matters – presumably including immigration – this would trigger “another bloody revolt”.

Mind you there's a big question mark as to who and what he was referring to!
On a personal note My Wife had a Brain CT scan on August the 2nd, for recurrent headaches, we found out Yesterday when she finally saw the Neurologist that there was nothing sinister on the Scan.
Which makes me wonder how five weeks ago at an appointment with the Memory Clinic she was diagnosed with Altzheimers, a terminal disease, and Vascular Dementia too.
I received no sensible answer to explain the situation...surely they would show on a CT scan?
But then what do I know about such things?
Three months to get a scan result? you could be dead and buried in that time, and repeated requests for information got nowhere.