I have not done anything like that myself.
so why do you accuse me of all those things?
FWIW, I am absolutely not a supporter of unbridled capitalism and there is a difference between understanding capitalism and having blind faith in it.
Brexit, for once some facts.
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so why do you accuse me of all those things?
FWIW, I am absolutely not a supporter of unbridled capitalism and there is a difference between understanding capitalism and having blind faith in it.
I didn't accuse you personally of doing those things did I? but of subscribing to the view that literally uses those methods as a means of control.
What we are now looking at is not Capitalism as it manifested itself in the past but a new and sinister extension of it's power into politics, which you seem to have missed.
Corporations have reached the state where they subvert the power of the state, which is an excellent reason for excluding ones of Foreign origin, that may actually be following an agenda of the Government of their country, with China being the classic example.
We need investment from our own people with an interest (even if sketchy) in the country that houses them.
Not from a pack of power mad "flashily presented" Communists.
False saviours the lot of them.
that is interesting, apparently Sweden 46th highest, Norway 102nd (compared to UK 123d) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
of course there is also the cliché about culture and self awareness (that those who have that introject anger and are more likely to become suicidal, while those who don't are more likely to project it and invade foreign countries, completely fook up the world, cause refugee crises and then blame the eu for it. naturally I wouldn't dream of accusing a and enlightened place like this of that..)
Why not? we are busily making matters worse on a daily basis, just keep it out of the papers unless accidentally one of our drones murders a significant terrorist by chance.
The actual cost of doing so is of course only about a million pounds if you count the attempts that fail, a slight down payment on the trouble that backfires on us subsequently.
Why would you assume that
1. The Chinese will poor money into an economy of just 60 million people, when there is a market of 10 times that 15 miles away.?
2. That the Chinese are friends of the UK?.. they have historians also, and long memories.
1. in the same way that swiss made products can be sold in the EU, there will be access to the EU27 market.
2. There is no change in our relationship with China post brexit.
1) Do you have any experience of dealing with Swiss companies?
KTM buy lots from DT Swiss... and I mean lots.
KTM's words to me at our last meeting...."Don't be like Switzerland, its a nightmare"
2) yes there is... Currently we're 1 of 28 with a relationship with China, with a market size of c750 million. Post Brexshit, we'll be 1 of 1, starting a new relationship, with a market of less than 10% of the EU at just c65 million. Which will be on very different terms, with a very different balance, and we'll be starting from WTO terms.
What on earth makes you think nothing will change with China?? Everything will change.
It's called realism, and not living in a Tory dream world
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firstly, there is the transition period.
secondly, we may join the EU customs union after that.
I learn something new every day OG. Your viewpoint is the equivalent of Realism and all things wrong in the UK is the equivalent of a Tory dream world.
Perhaps it's time for you to expand on this and tell us what your ideal world is, how it works, who runs it and exactly what it has to offer?
What transition period? Even is there is one, its just delaying Brexit isn't it? You do realise even if we want it, the EU might not? They don't have to let us do they? Why would they let us keep the benefits if we're not paying?
Size matters, Switzerland at 8 million is 1% of the the EU, UK at 60 million is closer to 10%.
Switzerland is fully surrounded by the EU, and sell into a few specialised areas precision goods , pharma... They need to buy their general purpose goods from the EU. The UK would be the reverse.
Your initial statement \hope was that the Chinese would continue to pour money into the UK. That is the stuff of fantasy. My question is why would they?
It was never going to work was it? The promises were not deliverable and even those promising them knew that.... so it was always doomed to fail.
The wheels are coming off, as predicted.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-delay-eu-withdrawal-government-talks-stall-theresa-may-david-davis-jeremy-corbyn-tory-a8008686.html
The wheels are coming off, as predicted.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-delay-eu-withdrawal-government-talks-stall-theresa-may-david-davis-jeremy-corbyn-tory-a8008686.html
First, I read here that the UK will simply crash out of the EU without a deal and become like Norway. Then I read we would join EFTA and that would be brilliant for all concerned.
Now, we are to be like Switzerland and we'll do fantastically well like the Swiss. Really! Somehow, I think we will do less well in any of those suggested arrangements than if we were to remain in the EU.
I loved the cute one-liner thrown in by OG:
It has become increasingly embarrassing watching the TV news, particularly on BBC, with the charmless May fawning all over the EU representatives, having taken personal command of the negotiations, relegating Davis and Co to bit parts in what is beginning to resemble a low-budget movie.
Worse, we then have to listen to the deputy leader of the tory party, Laura Kuennsberg,
spin the day's proceedings to make it seem that we are making progress.
Once the BBC returns to the rest of the news, we are then subjected to the relentless propaganda assault on the failings of the NHS, in order to soften up the public for the inevitable government explanation a little further down the road, that it is essential to privatise the whole system in order to make it efficient and cost-effective.
Sadly, about 90% of the UK population (a guess) have never read George Orwell as if they had, they would understand that we are heading towards a dystopian nightmare under thismafia-style gang of arms dealers, criminals, murderers and paedophiles government comprising a mix of plutocracy and oligarchy.
Every time I think of all those people who desperately want a return to the good old days; to that imagined golden age at some point in our history, and voted for 'Brexit' because they believed the fairy-tale they were being spun by a bunch of charlatans, I laugh. I really do! Before too much longer, without a change of government, those people are going to be rewarded and get to re-live those times, only they will then discover that it wasn't exactly the bed of roses that their faded memories had them believe.
Tom
Now, we are to be like Switzerland and we'll do fantastically well like the Swiss. Really! Somehow, I think we will do less well in any of those suggested arrangements than if we were to remain in the EU.
I loved the cute one-liner thrown in by OG:
We'll never be the same as Cuba although there are things we could learn from them, like being able to get a doctor's appointment quickly, for example!
It has become increasingly embarrassing watching the TV news, particularly on BBC, with the charmless May fawning all over the EU representatives, having taken personal command of the negotiations, relegating Davis and Co to bit parts in what is beginning to resemble a low-budget movie.
Worse, we then have to listen to the deputy leader of the tory party, Laura Kuennsberg,
spin the day's proceedings to make it seem that we are making progress.Once the BBC returns to the rest of the news, we are then subjected to the relentless propaganda assault on the failings of the NHS, in order to soften up the public for the inevitable government explanation a little further down the road, that it is essential to privatise the whole system in order to make it efficient and cost-effective.
Sadly, about 90% of the UK population (a guess) have never read George Orwell as if they had, they would understand that we are heading towards a dystopian nightmare under this
Every time I think of all those people who desperately want a return to the good old days; to that imagined golden age at some point in our history, and voted for 'Brexit' because they believed the fairy-tale they were being spun by a bunch of charlatans, I laugh. I really do! Before too much longer, without a change of government, those people are going to be rewarded and get to re-live those times, only they will then discover that it wasn't exactly the bed of roses that their faded memories had them believe.
Tom
Actually you are nearly right, as all major things wrong in the UK are in fact either directly or through complete ignorance or stupidity due to the machinations of the so called Government.
My definition of an ideal world? where the Tory Government is exposed for the Menace it really is and never gets into power again, would be a basic step in the right direction.
If you were capable of "learning something new every day" you would have abandoned both Brexit and realised that the Conservatives are a set of politicians who are incapable of running the country.
I really can't be bothered to pander to your question, go back through the thread far enough and I set it down in detail, simply enough explained for you to understand.
and replaced by what? an equally incapable bunch of professional liars?
Whoever they are, renewed Membership of the EU will curb their excesses, as it has so far in the past, but that is now out of the window till we get back in.
But first the public will have to face up to the consequences of the rash decision they made in the referendum, and feel the full effect of unfettered right wing policies in all their awful "splendour"
Newsnight interviewed Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden last night. He voted for brexit. The reason is 'the opportunities are there'. Like many, he does not know how to get there but believes that 'somebody has a handle on it'.
I think the result is a big surprise but it will be alright on the night.
I think the result is a big surprise but it will be alright on the night.