Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

and who was it started this rush to mediocracy - sorry equality?

Its a good question to which I don't have an answer. A colleague of mine was teaching in the middle East some 25 years ago and came back telling us that unless you gave good marks , the students would have you fired. Much later say 5 years ago in talks with a middle Eastern countries education ministry, they informed me they were removing students from a named UK college, because they were getting grades for nothing.
Its hard to know where these educational philosophies come from, not from practitioners at the chalk face, but I believe I was told that Australia was the start of the current craze

 

[oldgroaner]

If ever there was a time to work together for the common good, now is that time - some hopes of that I'm sure.

Far too late, how can you work "For the common good" with people who work for the good of the elite?
Answer: deny them support in any shape or form, and expose their true purpose at every opportunity.
They are working only to enrich themselves at the expense of others, if you can't see that then you are aiding and abetting them.
What's in it for you that makes it worth it?

 

[oldgroaner]

I would suggest that is total nonsense. Not the fact there was such a 'club' simply that you are judging it by different standards than existed at the time. To then extrapolate that into the motives of the present is where the absolute nonsense comes in.

There's that old saying about apples and how they don't fall far from the tree. Sometimes they do and sometimes that apple decides to jump and fly away to make sure it's not considered too close to the parental tree.

So now to be a Tory voter you have to believe in Flying Apples?
And leopards that change their spots too it seems, and live by the "Pirates Code" perhaps.
And Tory's believe all this Brexit business is well intentioned, despite their leaders being proved liars from their own mouths in public on the media too.

Conservative Voters, Fantasy people living in Fantasy Land, taking the country into danger on the basis of what is nothing more than a Wager on an old carthorse from a milk cart running in the Grand National

 

[Kudoscycles]

I would suggest that is total nonsense. Not the fact there was such a 'club' simply that you are judging it by different standards than existed at the time. To then extrapolate that into the motives of the present is where the absolute nonsense comes in.

There's that old saying about apples and how they don't fall far from the tree. Sometimes they do and sometimes that apple decides to jump and fly away to make sure it's not considered too close to the parental tree.

If you think that is nonsense.....do you realise that within the last Tory manifesto prior to the GE,despite all the problems of Brexit,the NHS/Social Care,what was important to the Tory Toffs.....bringing back fox hunting!!!.....I don't see Hammond or Soubry prioritising dusting off their hunting pink.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

If our country does descend into violence and chaos I,m afraid I,ll place the blame not at the Tory elite, right wing, or any of the groups Tom and OG despise. The blame will lie with such as Tom. His and his ilk have somehow been empowered by Brexit to rant , rave and always insult with comments both distasteful and inflamatory. The process started straight after leavers got the majority anfd has actually slowly got worse. For goodness sake just take a step back and read your posts. Tillson, Woosh, myself, and every person remotely supporting leaving ( or actually now supporting country) has been patronised, insulted and put down.
Its not a big step to violence, which I suspect Tom would support.

 

[flecc]

Tillson, Woosh, myself, and every person remotely supporting leaving ( or actually now supporting country) has been patronised, insulted and put down.

Which has strengthened your resolve.

Say thank you!
.

 

[oldgroaner]

If our country does descend into violence and chaos I,m afraid I,ll place the blame not at the Tory elite, right wing, or any of the groups Tom and OG despise. The blame will lie with such as Tom. His and his ilk have somehow been empowered by Brexit to rant , rave and always insult with comments both distasteful and inflamatory. The process started straight after leavers got the majority anfd has actually slowly got worse. For goodness sake just take a step back and read your posts. Tillson, Woosh, myself, and every person remotely supporting leaving ( or actually now supporting country) has been patronised, insulted and put down.

You really do need to start talking like an adult, as you seem to have some sort of persecution fetish .
The damage that has been done and the consequences thereof are entirely the responsibility of those who voted for brexit.
You made a grave error in going so and see off a chain of unfortunate events.
Your problem, your responsibility. You won get over it!
Shame it doesn't suit your prejudices.
And any violence that occurs as a result is most likely to come from disappointed leave voters who have been robbed of the bright future they are expecting.
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

interesting poll from YouGov on attitude of our neighbours on brexit.
This poll was done in August, before the no deal brexit comes to the front page.
There were still more brexiters than remainers in the UK according to their poll. Who knows, with the prospect that air travels may be grounded on March 30th 2019, opinion may shift quickly soon after that.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/french-public-are-more-likely-want-uk-leave-stay-e/

 

[Kudoscycles]

interesting poll from YouGov on attitude of our neighbours on brexit.
This poll was done in August, before the no deal brexit comes to the front page.
There were still more brexiters than remainers in the UK according to their poll. Who knows, with the prospect that air travels may be grounded on March 30th 2019, opinion may shift quickly soon after that.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/french-public-are-more-likely-want-uk-leave-stay-e/

That's good,at least if we do decide to remain,most of the EU seem to want us to stay.
KudosDave

 

[PeterL]

That's good,at least if we do decide to remain,most of the EU seem to want us to stay.
KudosDave

Of course, we're good neighbours, it's just the politicians and their supporters that let us down.

 

[PeterL]

You really do need to start talking like an adult, as you seem to have some sort of persecution fetish .
The damage that has been done and the consequences thereof are entirely the responsibility of those who voted for brexit.
You made a grave error in going so and see off a chain of unfortunate events.
Your problem, your responsibility. You won get over it!
Shame it doesn't suit your prejudices.
And any violence that occurs as a result is most likely to come from disappointed leave voters who have been robbed of the bright future they are expecting.
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I guess that makes the point - encouraging to the extreme as usual.

 

[PeterL]

If our country does descend into violence and chaos I,m afraid I,ll place the blame not at the Tory elite, right wing, or any of the groups Tom and OG despise. The blame will lie with such as Tom. His and his ilk have somehow been empowered by Brexit to rant , rave and always insult with comments both distasteful and inflamatory. The process started straight after leavers got the majority anfd has actually slowly got worse. For goodness sake just take a step back and read your posts. Tillson, Woosh, myself, and every person remotely supporting leaving ( or actually now supporting country) has been patronised, insulted and put down.
Its not a big step to violence, which I suspect Tom would support.

In the spirit of peace and goodwill, here's yet another quote from days gone by:

“The period which immediately precedes an election, and that during which the election is taking place, must always be considered as a national crisis. ... As the election draws near, the activity of intrigue and the agitation of the populace increase; the citizens are divided into hostile camps, each of which assumes the name of its favourite candidate; the whole nation glows with feverish excitement.” -- Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” 1835

Appreciate this is not an election albeit some would want to make it one I suspect.

 

[PeterL]

If you think that is nonsense.....do you realise that within the last Tory manifesto prior to the GE,despite all the problems of Brexit,the NHS/Social Care,what was important to the Tory Toffs.....bringing back fox hunting!!!.....I don't see Hammond or Soubry prioritising dusting off their hunting pink.
KudosDave

Can't help but agree that the Bring back fox hunting' was bit naff but I could quote you many more from the recent Labour manifesto

 

[PeterL]

Caption?

 

[oldtom]

Quite why you feel the need to be so downright nasty escapes me, almost akin to the female Labour MP (name escapes) who recently had to gall to say that she couldn't ever bring herself to be next to a Tory MP. What's the matter with you people you're supposed to have ambitions to run the country.

Let me remind you that even Tony got it wrong on many occasions, but, he at least would happily be in the same company.

If ever there was a time to work together for the common good, now is that time - some hopes of that I'm sure.

First, you accused me of being personal; now, you tell me I'm downright nasty then you write some drivel about someone whose name you can't even remember. You seem incredibly touchy about something - I wonder why that is?

Once again, you make a statement about someone, Tony Benn on this occasion, as if to suggest you have intimate knowledge of the kind of company he kept....am I missing something here? Were you perhaps a tory election agent or some other kind of flunkey working on behalf of an MP; intern or voluntary helper with research or something?

Then we get to your final paragraph which is a classic piece of pomposity and cynicism:

If ever there was a time to work together for the common good, now is that time - some hopes of that I'm sure.

When have tories ever worked for the common good? The common good is anathema to tories but I fear arrogance may obstruct you from understanding that fact.

Just for the sake of clarity, one of my political heroes is Nye Bevan and I share his opinion of tories:



Tom

 

[oldtom]

In the spirit of peace and goodwill, here's yet another quote from days gone by:

“The period which immediately precedes an election, and that during which the election is taking place, must always be considered as a national crisis. ... As the election draws near, the activity of intrigue and the agitation of the populace increase; the citizens are divided into hostile camps, each of which assumes the name of its favourite candidate; the whole nation glows with feverish excitement.” -- Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America,” 1835

Appreciate this is not an election albeit some would want to make it one I suspect.

We need no lessons on democracy from the USA!

Tom

 

[PeterL]

First, you accused me of being personal; now, you tell me I'm downright nasty then you write some drivel about someone whose name you can't even remember. You seem incredibly touchy about something - I wonder why that is?

Once again, you make a statement about someone, Tony Benn on this occasion, as if to suggest you have intimate knowledge of the kind of company he kept....am I missing something here? Were you perhaps a tory election agent or some other kind of flunkey working on behalf of an MP; intern or voluntary helper with research or something?

Then we get to your final paragraph which is a classic piece of pomposity and cynicism:



When have tories ever worked for the common good? The common good is anathema to tories but I fear arrogance may obstruct you from understanding that fact.

Just for the sake of clarity, one of my political heroes is Nye Bevan and I share his opinion of tories:

View attachment 21681

Tom

Generally, I find that every time a subject is raised on here, there is a long thread of hysterical comments about how nasty the Tories are. Yes, Tory supporters state their case and answer back, but they seem to be able to do it in a more restrained, mature manner than you screamers.

 

[PeterL]

We need no lessons on democracy from the USA!

Tom

I think you will find he was French, the clue is in the name. It was a comment and equally applies to the UK?

 

[oldtom]

I think you will find he was French, the clue is in the name. It was a comment and equally applies to the UK?

Of course he was French! The book however is a viewpoint of American democracy at a given point in history.

Your point is?

Tom

 

[PeterL]

Of course he was French! The book however is a viewpoint of American democracy at a given point in history.

Your point is?

Tom

Polarisation and everything that seems to mean on here - like hostility?