And he'd be sad to learn that it continued into the 21st century.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Since both 'OG' and 'Woosh' have chosen to answer your question, I see no reason not to suggest my view of the type of support a decent government should provide.
Let's say, for example, just 10% of the 'support' provided by the tory government to their mates in the banking business.......you remember; the ones who got the country into such debt that the UK was essentially bankrupt......till we printed some more banknotes and repeated that act regularly rather than face up to the truth and tell the public what really happened.
Perhaps we could look again at the £1billion bribe paid by the self-same government to the NI loyalists to ensure the continuation of the tories' tenuous hold on power?
Moreover, maybe we should be appraised of the fine detail involved in 'the deal that wasn't really a deal' to persuade the Japanese carmakers to commit to remaining in the UK post-'Brexit'? Call me cynical but I just have the slightest of suspicions that money entered into that 'deal'......taxpayers' money!
Tom
It's lovely to see that that great, British, entrepreneurial spirit has not yet been lost in spite of the impending economic disaster about to befall the nation:
https://www.radicalteatowel.co.uk/search.php?search_query=europe
Tom
https://www.radicalteatowel.co.uk/search.php?search_query=europe
Tom
Two or is three wrongs make a right then, or should that be left? We don't really know what the Nissan deal was but, we can be fairly sure that it would have been money well spent or promised. I've not seen anywhere that BAE themselves have asked for Government money so perhaps they are just in the process of making ends meet? As you ask, Yes, you are cynical.
Does it not surprise you that FOI legislation failed to extract any answer from the government on this particular issue?
Notwithstanding that fact, you then state,
What research are you party to which suggests that might possibly be the case......or are you just guessing and hoping for the best, rather like the clowns who voted for 'Brexit' with zero evidential information to suggest it could in some way be beneficial for the citizens of the UK?
I certainly cannot be sure that this apology for a government might spend taxpayers' money well and I don't see how anyone with any grey matter between their ears can be sure either, particularly after the government's refusal to describe the details of that 'deal'.
This tory government will be remembered for the litany of lies and deceptions pontificated by their members and very probably, also for corruption and misuse of public funds.
Tom
Here we are back to the old game of beatification of some politicians and the vilification of others. It might be better to remember that the past is history, and can only be revisited in memory. The present is now and the future has yet to be written.
For those who believe that the first post war government, was a gift from heaven, there is a counter narrative.... And please believe me, I have no vested interest.
In this view, which I picked up from an history magazine, has it that while Germany and France and to an extent Italy used the monies from the Marshall plan to rebuild their economies and technical competences, that the UK spent theirs on prestigious projects such as nuclear weapons and in setting up the NHS. When those monies were spent, the UK had lost its productive edge and was reduced to using 1930s technology in its smaller factories.
When the winds of change started to blow in the 1960s and the far flung colonies rebelled, the monies and goods started to dry up.
As was stated in the Catalan thread, one person's golden age in history was another's horror.
For those who believe that the first post war government, was a gift from heaven, there is a counter narrative.... And please believe me, I have no vested interest.
In this view, which I picked up from an history magazine, has it that while Germany and France and to an extent Italy used the monies from the Marshall plan to rebuild their economies and technical competences, that the UK spent theirs on prestigious projects such as nuclear weapons and in setting up the NHS. When those monies were spent, the UK had lost its productive edge and was reduced to using 1930s technology in its smaller factories.
When the winds of change started to blow in the 1960s and the far flung colonies rebelled, the monies and goods started to dry up.
As was stated in the Catalan thread, one person's golden age in history was another's horror.
I would have thought that the damaging change was and still is in the education system. The UK discarded traditional teaching methods, children sit around round tables facing each other to play together instead of in rows, facing the teachers and learn in silence. Course subjects move away from 'hard' subjects that require analytical thinking to soft subjects that require creative thinking and don't let me start on why everybody is entitled to a degree.
Bit of an over simplifiction there, the American Company I worked for bought second hand german machines to start up in 1909 and was still using them up to selling up in the 1970's.
Nothing what so ever to do with the Labour or Conservative Governments, and typical of the many companies i visited.
What we suffer from in this country is a Parasitic Class of investors who will put their money where the slave labour is rather than modernise industry here.
The only people to invest here are almost all Foreign Companies, which is why shares in our so called industries and other businesses are now 50% Foreign owned.
And this is aided and abetted by Tory policy which seems terrified of the idea that they might actually have to get involved with an industrial society, which they prefer to be Foreign owned and they can't be blamed for if it goes wrong.
The Tory party, most advanced Parasitic "organism" on the planet.
I used the word "organism" as no one can accuse them of being "organised", as they want that done for them by foreigners, don't they?
From the indepenedent
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Theresa May vows to spend money on Brexit 'no deal' immediately only minutes after Chancellor rules it out
Philip Hammond admitted diverting funds would mean less money for the NHS and social care - and said not yet
So Holy Brexit is more important than Social Care and the NHS.
Can anyone tell me why?
What else is she prepared to feed into the maw of this monster?
"
Theresa May vows to spend money on Brexit 'no deal' immediately only minutes after Chancellor rules it out
Philip Hammond admitted diverting funds would mean less money for the NHS and social care - and said not yet
So Holy Brexit is more important than Social Care and the NHS.
Can anyone tell me why?
What else is she prepared to feed into the maw of this monster?
Having worked in engineering education for 35 years, I have sympathy for your view. Playing is a very good way of learning, but at some stage the individual needs to step away and put in the " hard yards " at it were of actually internalising the knowledge by hard study.
Learning by rote and memorisation, might not be fun, but it is the only way of getting useful basic facts. You cannot even use a dictionary unless you know the alphabet. Learning tables up to 12 times, helps form mental acuity.
Within the engineering community I regret the demise of the slide rule, for the calculator. The slide rule required the student to think about the size of the problem, significant figures , significance of powers of ten etc and to do a sample trial before the more complete calculation .
And while I on the subject, while I did not think so at the time, I appreciate the rigour that Euclidean geometry and the development of logical thought it demanded. Likewise , and even less in current vogue, the structure that Latin provided.
I had occasion some years ago to be a technical visitor \ guest on a few occasions in one of the French IUTs for electronic project presentations. What impressed me was that there was a systematic progression of a formal logic technique before they went on to discuss the actual circuit or system. The electronics may have been trivial, but the systematic approach was not.
It's an historic pastime of the masses. Sadly, history also reveals that the reason the masses have been downtrodden by the elite for centuries is available to all if they are prepared to do enough research.
Just by way of example, in the UK a bit of hunting around reveals some extraordinary connections between present members of the PCP and royalty. When I use the term 'inbred' to describe tories, I do not use that term loosely - royalty, the aristocracy and the tory party are all part and parcel of the same elite. Any form of dissent by the masses is dealt with in exactly the same way as in previous centuries - leopards never change their spots!
As Tony Benn explained in the simplest terms many years ago:
Tom
Does your first sentence not actually make my point? American companies , at least of those I know, generally sweat their assets until they fall apart. They generally have a three month time frame for investment ROI. Why did that American firm close? Uncompetitive?
As an example of sweating assets those tourist boats bringing people around Manhattan island date and look it from the 1930s
We would have had instances here where US companies would have shipped defunct equipment from their parent plants, to avail of Irish grant aid when setting up here, but eventually our government wised u as our technical competence increased.
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There was a right wing coup in 1939 to unseat Churchill and attempt peace with Hitler,the group formed themselves into the 'right club' and included much of the elite of English society. The group included the King,the Duke of Westminster,William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw), Oswald Moseley,they signed a book,200 plus entries...many descendants of that group are still the elite of our society and are represented by the extreme right wing of this current Tory party who want the power and influence over us that they had in the 1930's,Brexit is their mechanism of achieving that.
KudosDave
KudosDave
Quite why you feel the need to be so downright nasty escapes me, almost akin to the female Labour MP (name escapes) who recently had to gall to say that she couldn't ever bring herself to be next to a Tory MP. What's the matter with you people you're supposed to have ambitions to run the country.
Let me remind you that even Tony got it wrong on many occasions, but, he at least would happily be in the same company.
If ever there was a time to work together for the common good, now is that time - some hopes of that I'm sure.
I would suggest that is total nonsense. Not the fact there was such a 'club' simply that you are judging it by different standards than existed at the time. To then extrapolate that into the motives of the present is where the absolute nonsense comes in.
There's that old saying about apples and how they don't fall far from the tree. Sometimes they do and sometimes that apple decides to jump and fly away to make sure it's not considered too close to the parental tree.
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The trees that our current Tory right wingers is no apple tree more a long lived oak. In the 30's the aristocracy had the most to lose on the Second World War.....look up the family trees of the current aristo Tories,70 years is a mere blip on the life histories of our aristocracy,melded with our media and royalty....Rothermere,Rees-Mogg etc.
KudosDave
Hammond doesn't want Brexit,he and the Treasury are erecting every obstacle to Brexit continuing. To date no cabinet member has spoken out about the negatives of Brexit.....but today Hammond said that without a deal we will have no flights possible between the UK and EU,and he is not spending a penny on 'no deal' infrastructure (customs arrangements and assets)...this contrasts with May's statement within minutes that the government are preparing for no deal.
Hammond was never keen on Brexit but he realises that we haven't got the money to Brexit and the economy will not improve to allow it. I wonder how long will it be before Hammond comes out openly and say that Brexit will be a disaster.
Hammond's position is in direct opposition to Boris's,with May stuck in the middle....torn between a puppet of the Tory right wing and the moderate Remainers.
The splits in the Tories are now so wide and getting wider it is difficult to see a way forward on the domestic agenda,never mind how we are going to sort out a deal with the EU.
KudosDave
Hammond was never keen on Brexit but he realises that we haven't got the money to Brexit and the economy will not improve to allow it. I wonder how long will it be before Hammond comes out openly and say that Brexit will be a disaster.
Hammond's position is in direct opposition to Boris's,with May stuck in the middle....torn between a puppet of the Tory right wing and the moderate Remainers.
The splits in the Tories are now so wide and getting wider it is difficult to see a way forward on the domestic agenda,never mind how we are going to sort out a deal with the EU.
KudosDave