Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

perhaps because they aren't lumbered with petty jealousies.

Good grief how can you come out with that line?
Oh Boy, that is delirious!

I also feel that people are generally treated well in this country of ours, certainly when compared to say 100 years ago.
And that is largely thanks to the action of Unions, nothing whatever to do with Tory policies is it?, and frankly quite a few of those improvement only came about due to EU membership.
lies damned lies and Tory claims,they put even Trump to shame

 

[Woosh]

I doubt anyone can make a future for UKIP, for most it has no point in a post EU membership future. Only being against and asking people to vote against rather than for can never have a long term future.

They'd have to change their name and create a whole new popular agenda to vote for to be successful.
.

they have had name change from the referendum party to UKIP. I think the name is OK. It's true that their new leader, Henry Bolton, will have to create a whole new manifesto for the next GE but they are the natural home for brexiters and can poll more votes than the Libdems. It seems that kippers have found a better leader in Henry Bolton, I wish him well.

 

[oldgroaner]

they have had name change from the referendum party to UKIP. I think the name is OK. It's true that their new leader, Henry Bolton, will have to create a whole new manifesto for the next GE but they are the natural home for brexiters and can poll more votes than the Libdems. It seems that kippers have found a better leader in Henry Bolton, I wish him well.

With luck he will last till next month...

 

[Woosh]

With luck he will last till next month...

well, I think Henry Bolton will last a lot longer than that.

 

[Zlatan]

You miss the point as usual. Brexiters were and are the campaigners to leave the EU, like UKIP.

Remainers were for staying with the EU and weren't campaigning for change, so voted accordingly.

Ergo it's Brexit that's the against position.
.

You are right, it was but isn't anymore. Get real and positive flecc. We are leaving.

 

[Steb]

You are right, it was but isn't anymore. Get real and positive flecc. We are leaving.

When brexiters parade this kind of binary thinking I feel a sense of pity. You are ill prepared for the compromise and moral ambiguity may is about to shower you with

 

[Zlatan]

When brexiters parade this kind of binary thinking I feel a sense of pity. You are ill prepared for the compromise and moral ambiguity may is about to shower you with

So we aren't leaving then ???
What is your solution ? Carry on moaning on a forum ? Vote Labour in next election and hope Corbyn does a U turn ? Revolution ? Vote Vince Cable in ? ( assuming we get chance before we leave?)
Insulting , laying blame is futile...but you are in right place for expressing that characteristic.
But by all means please tell us all what you want to happen.In reality once we triggered art 50 we are out...unless ofcourse you are recommending revolution but that action gets you kicked out the EU...
And BTW it is ( was) a binary choice.

 

[Steb]

Not sure how to respond to this. It's a total mix of both sense and nonsense. You might choose to think that Conservatives are solely intent on maintaining the status-quo as defined by you but I see it as far different to that. No silver spoons in my world and yet I feel I was both encouraged and actually did quite well, thanks in the main to Conservative policies. I don't expect to get a share in someone else's wealth just because they have more than me. I also feel that people are generally treated well in this country of ours, certainly when compared to say 100 years ago. Sure things could be better and hopefully they will be, more likely I feel under a conservative government - perhaps because they aren't lumbered with petty jealousies.

This is the most rank hypocrisy I've heard all day (and I got up early), being born in the UK is a silver spoon (as opposed to a prostitute in maputo) and that's before one gets into the entrenched inequality here, public vs private schooling, where ones parents bought a house, etc etc. You have taken much money from others in your life, not the rich, the poor. Take a look at the phone in your hand, do you really think what you paid for it was part of a fair, equal distribution of wealth with the person who made it. Your ignorance may make you feel better about your sense of entitlement, but it has nothing to do with reality

 

[Steb]

So we aren't leaving then ???
What is your solution ? Carry on moaning on a forum ? Vote Labour in next election and hope Corbyn does a U turn ? Revolution ? Vote Vince Cable in ? ( assuming we get chance before we leave?)
Insulting , laying blame is futile...but you are in right place for expressing that characteristic.
But by all means please tell us all what you want to happen.In reality once we triggered art 50 we are out...unless ofcourse you are recommending revolution but that action gets you kicked out the EU...
And BTW it is ( was) a binary choice.

You ask all the wrong questions. Enlightenment will have more to do with asking yourself what really motivates Boris, Reese mog hard brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

And BTW it is ( was) a binary choice.

Made by people who not only had no idea of the gravity of the mistake they made at the time, but as you are proving with every post, are no wiser now. just hoping for the best and pretending not to fear the worst, for to do that would mean having to accept it was a mistake.

Oh, but you actually did that once, didn't you?
Oh ye of little faith, which side are you on today?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Mirror
"
Pro-life Tory and multi-millionaire Jacob Rees-Mogg profits from sale of abortion pills"
"
Multi-millionaire Tory Jacob Rees-Mogg has admitted his investment firm profits from abortion pills – even though he wants to deny rape victims the right to terminations.

His company has nearly £5million-worth of shares in the Indonesian firm Kalbe Farma, which produces the pills to prevent ulcers.

They also trigger terminations, can be bought in pharmacies and are used widely in Indonesia – where there are an estimated two million illegal abortions each year.

Father-of-six Mr Rees-Mogg defended the investments and said he would not resign his investment post.

But he admitted: “It would be wrong to pretend that I like it but the world is not always what you want it to be.”

Such integrity; Normally he can't stand hypocrisy, unless there's a profit to be made.
How about using your fortune to make the world a better place then?
OH! I forgot, he would get thrown out of the Tory Party if he did that.

 

[Zlatan]

Made by people who not only had no idea of the gravity of the mistake they made at the time, but as you are proving with every post, are no wiser now. just hoping for the best and pretending not to fear the worst, for to do that would mean having to accept it was a mistake.

Oh, but you actually did that once, didn't you?
Oh ye of little faith, which side are you on today?

As normal no constructive opinion from you or Steb, just the same old criticism of everyone.
What do you suggest we all do ? Please don't bore us with some unattainable change in our democracy. Just realistic advice folk can actually act on.
No matter what idealism you flecc,Tom or Steb spout will not change a damn thing.
Negotiations for our exit have started. We are leaving. You lot can post on here all your hate and bile for another 5 years but it will make absolutely no difference, apart from adding to the division of our country.
Any one of you tell us something attainable ? Sack May ? Appoint who ? Call a GE? Demand a second ref ? Vote in JC ? Cable ? Come on give us something...npot just blah blah blah against the establishment. It is getting rather boring hearing same old bile against leavers, BJ, JRM, etc etc ...

And Steb if you are having a go at Peter for owning a mobile exactly what are you using to post with ? We all benefit from cheap labour, unfortunately its the face of capitalism...the others don't work..

 

[Kudoscycles]

You are right, it was but isn't anymore. Get real and positive flecc. We are leaving.

Are you sure? Don't forget this Tory government and its leader are the party of U-turns???
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

the best for the country is for the tories to trigger a leadership contest which will reveal that hard brexiters have much less appeal than the right wing press infer. That may prompt the 40-60 WTO tory MPs to commit their party to a fresh general election. With dwindling membership (report says it's now around 100,000), the tories may just lose enough seats to bring about a coalition government, that's what we need for a successful brexit.

 

[flecc]

You are right, it was but isn't anymore. Get real and positive flecc. We are leaving.

Sort of. Since the government running the Brexit show doesn't have a clue what the end game is, nothing is certain.

The members of that government range from Hard Brexit Boris Johnson to lets-all-be-close-friends with the EU Soft Brexit Chris Grayling.

Meanwhile their supposed leader Theresa May only says Brexit means Brexit, meaning she really doesn't know what it means, and Jacob Rees Mogg believes it means a return to the nineteenth century.
.

 

[oldtom]

Sometimes the news is best translated into short soundbites and images:











Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Are you sure? Don't forget this Tory government and its leader are the party of U-turns???
KudosDave

Fair point at last, but is that what you want them to do ? A U turn and keep May,JRM and BJ...Thats improvement ? Or a U turn follows by a GE and Corbyn performs another ? He doesn't want EU control either ? ( and he will bankrupt the country)

I just wonder exactly all you remainers actually want. OG wants as much damage as possible to punish us stupid leave voters. Flecc wants USE. Steb wants communism.. Tom wants a left wing revolution Castro style. ? All of which have precious little to do with Brexit and our current healthy position. I,m sat in a bar in Greece, just paid £5 for lunch and a beer. ( even with parity exchange rate) Greeks I,ve met all with could not care less about brexit or say they want to do same..( no doubt Steb will think I,m oppressing the Greeks for only paying a fiver for lunch but he doesn't live in real world)

 

[oldgroaner]

As normal no constructive opinion from you or Steb, just the same old criticism of everyone.
What do you suggest we all do ? Please don't bore us with some unattainable change in our democracy. Just realistic advice folk can actually act on.
No matter what idealism you flecc,Tom or Steb spout will not change a damn thing.
Negotiations for our exit have started. We are leaving. You lot can post on here all your hate and bile for another 5 years but it will make absolutely no difference, apart from adding to the division of our country.
Any one of you tell us something attainable ? Sack May ? Appoint who ? Call a GE? Demand a second ref ? Vote in JC ? Cable ? Come on give us something...npot just blah blah blah against the establishment. It is getting rather boring hearing same old bile against leavers, BJ, JRM, etc etc ...

And Steb if you are having a go at Peter for owning a mobile exactly what are you using to post with ? We all benefit from cheap labour, unfortunately its the face of capitalism...the others don't work..

I don't hate anyone or suffer from bile, I am simply critical of foolish decisions by foolish people, and long ago I told you what would happen.
We will leave the EU, there will be hardship for the people, who are expecting great improvements to their lifestyle.
When these fail to materialise there will be big trouble, which will only be solved by rejoining the EU.
I don't need to do anything, merely wait, and the inevitable process will take place.
You lucky people!
You want sensible advice? Either do as I do and wait and see, or write to your MP and ask them to cancel brexit.
Then at least you won't look as big a fool when people ask of you were in favour of this ludicrously stupid and rash gamble, which is all that brexit is..

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

Surely, the point is that we have collectively voted to leave and that needs to be delivered by a Government that has drawn the short straw? Only the one Party was pro-Brexit and at one point it had well over 4M votes as I recall - that would have meant rather more of them in the HOC than might have been good for us given the OG's wish for PR.

Brexit supporters are certainly cross party or whatever 'nice' term suits.

The referendum was basically tied.. Zatlan has referred to it as a binary choice, In binary systems, there is a threshold between the 0 and 1 states called the forbidden zone. Where it's in a undeterminable state. That is where the result of the referendum poll lay. No decision is actually possible where a swing of 600,000 out of 35 million would have altered the "result".
There was therefore any range of possibilities open to the legislature to investigate and explore. What becomes inexplicable is that they both HoC and HoL then behaved like lemmings and turned it into the fiasco you and I are now faced with.

 

[flecc]

I also feel that people are generally treated well in this country of ours, certainly when compared to say 100 years ago.

Thanks mostly to Trade Unions, the 1945 to 1951 Attlee Labour government, the EU and ECJ and Human Rights Act influences.

Those small contributions from the Conservatives were mainly due to their need to match what was on offer elsewhere.
.