Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Most comedians appear to be left of centre which perhaps explains why we find them funny. There's a lot on here.A light hearted note, as I read your above comment, someone on the comedy The News Quiz has just said to applause:
"If weeding out the weak isn't the point of Conservatism, what is the point?"
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It is however a totally irrelevant comparison. Your foreign minister was not in any position to advocate or affect genocide . What he would have done would have been to crassly insult his hosts. The U.K. has no right to an embassy or diplomatic relations with any country.. It is a privilege offered by foreign host states usually on a mutual basis. A foreign minister represents their entire state while in a different land. Are you happy that he represented you or more properly your Queen in a correct fashion?
Boris Johnson is highly educated but seriously lacks good judgment. All too often his desire to display his knowledge or just show off leads to his putting his foot in his mouth, then expecting to laugh off the faux pas.
But one important element missing from his education is awareness that few if any cultures share our irreverent humour. I can't think of a worse choice of person as our foreign secretary, other than possibly the Duke of Edinburgh.
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Sorry but my comments make complete sense, if you can't see what the Conservative Party stands for than you have a real problem with understanding how evil it is.
The views you express could have come straight from the Murdoch press as do the attitudes you have expressed,.
I most certainly haven't joined any political party as quite simply I regard the whole process of party politics a prostitution of democracy,
As for your " book" take it somewhere quiet and read it more carefully.
I have not thrown any mud, sticks or anything else, simply stated the obvious, which you apparently find disagrees with your conditioning.
What a pity!
I very much agree with this, it's sad that there seems no effective way to eliminate the formation or inclusion of factional parties in politics. A government formed of truly independent democratic individuals would be a wonderful thing, but human nature being what it is it would soon form into some like minded groups.
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You have done nothing but knock every political system OG apart from one in power around 80 years ago. Yes by all means point out failings, of which there are many, but prey tell us OG what exactly is the alternative you suggest. Hand power over to unelected EU officials ? Put exactly who in no 10 ??? Disband our monarchy and do exactly what ? Unfortunately its been proved the world over extreme left governance simply fails economically,on top of which our current version of the left wants out of your glorious EU...Corbyn would never get the freedom he wants to destroy our economy completely in the EU.
Thousands of critical words from both you and Tom with absolutely no viable alternative offered. If I felt like you and Tom I,d sell up and move to China...wonder how you,d cope with their draconian treatment of the people ?
Whilst I certainly don't agree with the self-judgement that the OG makes complete sense I totally agree that human nature is always in play and to even attempt to pass that by, as a political leader, without a second glance is stupid. I, for one, like to think that I am far more balanced than that and I am prepared to change my mind, given a superior argument. It seems that I'm probably in a minority, certainly not of just one though which is a relief to me. If OG is of a mind that all politicians are evil then I think that Ziatan is correct, you're in the wrong place other than to point out the obvious - no one else would have you.
I think a truly evil politician is a rarity, but politicians who sometimes cannot see that what they are doing is evil are quite common. Inevitably they get to share the epithet.
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I doubt anyone can make a future for UKIP, for most it has no point in a post EU membership future. Only being against and asking people to vote against rather than for can never have a long term future.
They'd have to change their name and create a whole new popular agenda to vote for to be successful.
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You miss the point as usual. Brexiters were and are the campaigners to leave the EU, like UKIP.
Remainers were for staying with the EU and weren't campaigning for change, so voted accordingly.
Ergo it's Brexit that's the against position.
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Truly it is amazing how you get things wrong so often, lets look at your rant.
"You have done nothing but knock every political system OG apart from one in power around 80 years ago."
This is true, but then I certainly wasn't in Favour of the Attlee Governmment aking the mistake of going for Nuclear Weapons
" Yes by all means point out failings, of which there are many, but prey tell us OG what exactly is the alternative you suggest."
You really need to have that memory of yours looked at, as I have made many suggestions throughout this thread including
1. All Governments must be coalitions where all parties are represented accoring to their support by voting strength
2. political Parties should be illegal, the individual MP's elected on a personal basis according to support for their views, the formation of groups of like minded politicians during the life of the parliament should end when the next election occurs
"Hand power over to unelected EU officials ?"
Rather than to the many unelected Officials we have here now in this country?
"Put exactly who in no 10 ???"
Have the MP's select a PM
"Disband our monarchy and do exactly what ?"
Do you know I have never actually offered an opinion on that, but since you ask, what would they be needed for?
" Unfortunately its been proved the world over extreme left governance simply fails economically,"
Against that it has been proved that Capitalism is destroying the planet, waging wars over resources and creating more poverty among the lower classes here, so just what is your point?
"On top of which our current version of the left wants out of your glorious EU...Corbyn would never get the freedom he wants to destroy our economy completely in the EU."
Have you forgotten I criticised his policy on that?
"Thousands of critical words from both you and Tom with absolutely no viable alternative offered."
Sorry but I did offer a viable alternative, but you chose to ignore it
" If I felt like you and Tom I,d sell up and move to China...wonder how you,d cope with their draconian treatment of the people ?"
That would be your choice, I would sooner see radical change here thank you very much.
And if you felt like Tom and I you wouldn't have written the load of old balderdash you just did would you?
Surely, the point is that we have collectively voted to leave and that needs to be delivered by a Government that has drawn the short straw? Only the one Party was pro-Brexit and at one point it had well over 4M votes as I recall - that would have meant rather more of them in the HOC than might have been good for us given the OG's wish for PR.
Brexit supporters are certainly cross party or whatever 'nice' term suits.
First let me point out that No one actually "Has Me" now.
And once again as seems typical you are making assumptions that are way off the mark.
Lets look at the definition of "Conservative"
Conserve:
protect (something, especially something of environmental or cultural importance) from harm or destruction.
In this context in this country that means to protect the rights and privileges of the rich, and to those lower down the scale it means they intend to keep what they cherish, which alas means not wishing to share with others less well off.
Whichever way you view it, Conservatism is about not allowing any progress other than to enhance the gap between rich and poor.
By kidding the ones just above the bottom level that they are "Middle Class" and have a vested interest in seeing nothing ever improves for those below them.
In that enterprise the Tories have been succesful, but they have done it by preventing the nation's future being of one of improvement.
And quite simply by voting for this corrupt party you are making yourself an accessory after the fact.
Although all small c conservatives, politically remainers are of course Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dem in this context, all parties wanting to remain.
Thus in this context Brexiters must be at heart UKIPers, against EU membership.
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Not sure how to respond to this. It's a total mix of both sense and nonsense. You might choose to think that Conservatives are solely intent on maintaining the status-quo as defined by you but I see it as far different to that. No silver spoons in my world and yet I feel I was both encouraged and actually did quite well, thanks in the main to Conservative policies. I don't expect to get a share in someone else's wealth just because they have more than me. I also feel that people are generally treated well in this country of ours, certainly when compared to say 100 years ago. Sure things could be better and hopefully they will be, more likely I feel under a conservative government - perhaps because they aren't lumbered with petty jealousies.