Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Grow up OG.

Not you as well, is that the best your limited imagination can come up with?
You really should know better.
This right wing fantasy world you inhabit is well on the way to ruining the planet for profit and you open your mouth and put both feet in.

You manage to argue at one and the same time we have been going downhill for years then extoll the very policies responsible for this debacle as if they are as "Holy" as Brexit and no other ideas can possibly work better.

Amazing how you right wing fans imagine themselves to be somehow superior and in a position to condescend on others.
Don't waste my time with such tripe.
Perhaps if I have my brain removed I'll become a Tory voter too?

 

[PeterL]

I think this thread has run out of ideas, but, not steam it seems. Assuming that there ever were any real ideas. For some reason, the 'Remainders' seem to think they have the moral high ground and with that the right to demolish anything and anyone that thinks differently to them. It's fairly obvious, why some people go for the status-quo and when it comes to an argument they do have the in-built advantage of having something to fall back on - facts some would call them. Even then, we only ever hear the favourable ‘facts’. Come on guys it really wasn’t that good for the past 40 years and who’s to say that it wouldn’t have been as good, or even better, had we chosen not to join the EU? For those wanting change that’s a little more difficult. We can tell you what is wrong with the EU and we can suggest what we think will happen in the future. We can’t predict the future, neither can you. We can’t give you facts, we know that and so do you. Why then do you continually ask for facts?

For us, the EU is a failed experiment, it has not been to our liking. It does have some good socialist ideas but, it overly protects big business and is massively autocratic and wasteful. If it were a business it would have failed long ago. It’s just the same with any business be that a start-up or an existing one – they come and go, unless some daft government chooses to throw good money after bad and continually prop them up. Far better to let market forces dictate their fate and correct whatever caused the failure.

We are stifled by the EU, if not stuffed and this is not the best way forward, not for them and not for us. It's time to move on.

 

[PeterL]

Amazing how you right wing fans imagine themselves to be somehow superior and in a position to condescend on others.
Don't waste my time with such tripe.
Perhaps if I have my brain removed I'll become a Tory voter too?

Be hard to find perhaps? You don't need one - just an on-off switch would do.

 

[oldtom]

lower house prices, better saving rate, no tuition fees, more social housing.

In that case, in the famous words of Private Frazer of the Walmington-on-Sea Home Guard platoon, 'We're all doomed!'.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

For some reason, the 'Remainders' seem to think they have the moral high ground

it seems that the remainers on this thread take it as truth that socialism is good, conservatism is bad. As brexit is a result of conservative infighting, it is doubly bad. This may explain why the LibDems are seen as a joke although their policy is most remainer of the three main parties.

 

[oldtom]

As far as university education is concerned, I think we need more technicians than graduates.

And these 'technicians' will be employed in our steel, engineering, construction, mining industries....?

Tom

 

[PeterL]

And these 'technicians' will be employed in our steel, engineering, construction, mining industries....?

Tom

What a silly thing to say. Most of the technician posts are now deemed to be the preserve of graduates nowadays. Hence the rise in both students and Universities and with that the expectations. Nothing against education but it needs a purpose and given that many of the influx from Europe are graduates themselves it seems an obvious conclusion that our education system is failing to provide what is needed?

 

[PeterL]

it seems that the remainers on this thread take it as truth that socialism is good, conservatism is bad. As brexit is a result of conservative infighting, it is doubly bad. This may explain why the LibDems are seen as a joke although their policy is most remainer of the three main parties.

Don't forget the SNP, they're bigger than the LD. Just hope that observation doesn't encourage anyone.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think this thread has run out of ideas, but, not steam it seems. Assuming that there ever were any real ideas. For some reason, the 'Remainders' seem to think they have the moral high ground and with that the right to demolish anything and anyone that thinks differently to them. It's fairly obvious, why some people go for the status-quo and when it comes to an argument they do have the in-built advantage of having something to fall back on - facts some would call them. Even then, we only ever hear the favourable ‘facts’. Come on guys it really wasn’t that good for the past 40 years and who’s to say that it wouldn’t have been as good, or even better, had we chosen not to join the EU? For those wanting change that’s a little more difficult. We can tell you what is wrong with the EU and we can suggest what we think will happen in the future. We can’t predict the future, neither can you. We can’t give you facts, we know that and so do you. Why then do you continually ask for facts?

For us, the EU is a failed experiment, it has not been to our liking. It does have some good socialist ideas but, it overly protects big business and is massively autocratic and wasteful. If it were a business it would have failed long ago. It’s just the same with any business be that a start-up or an existing one – they come and go, unless some daft government chooses to throw good money after bad and continually prop them up. Far better to let market forces dictate their fate and correct whatever caused the failure.

We are stifled by the EU, if not stuffed and this is not the best way forward, not for them and not for us. It's time to move on.

Where are you proposing we move on to?

Back into the past? you have nowhere else to go having supported conservative Governments that have made a balls up of ruining our industries and sold off the infrastructure
And still no answer as to proof that Brexit will work

 

[oldgroaner]

What a silly thing to say. Most of the technician posts are now deemed to be the preserve of graduates nowadays. Hence the rise in both students and Universities and with that the expectations. Nothing against education but it needs a purpose and given that many of the influx from Europe are graduates themselves it seems an obvious conclusion that our education system is failing to provide what is needed?

As usual you missed the point, what industries? when are they going to magically materialise?
And why didn't they before?

 

[oldgroaner]

it seems that the remainers on this thread take it as truth that socialism is good, conservatism is bad. As brexit is a result of conservative infighting, it is doubly bad. This may explain why the LibDems are seen as a joke although their policy is most remainer of the three main parties.

They are seen as a joke because they became a Conservative Lapdog.

 

[Woosh]

Don't forget the SNP, they're bigger than the LD. Just hope that observation doesn't encourage anyone.

The SNP dominates Scotland but take the UK as a whole, they are much less important than the LibDems. in the last GE, the SNP had 977,569 votes, the LibDems 2,371,910 votes.

 

[Woosh]

They are seen as a joke because they became a Conservative Lapdog.

if you discard all oppositions as tories' lapdogs, you are left with JC - not a winnable strategy.
Nicola Sturgeon, Tony Blair and Vince Cable campaign to remain. JC doesn't.

 

[oldgroaner]

Be hard to find perhaps? You don't need one - just an on-off switch would do.

Still trying that approach?
And still no answer to the Question What proof have you that Brexit will be benefit to the Public, even if you "Have Moved on"
incidentally where would that be?

 

[oldgroaner]

if you discard all oppositions as tories' lapdogs, you are left with JC - not a winnable strategy.
Tony Blair and Vince Cable campaign to remain. JC doesn't.

I really don't want the process to stop anyway, it's time for the Brexiteers to prove their case the hard way and finally cobble together if not a working plan then an apology.

 

[Woosh]

what industries? when are they going to magically materialise?

if what you say is true, then they all disappeared while we are in the EU.

 

[oldgroaner]

if what you say is true, then they all disappeared while we are in the EU.

Yes and this was partly due to lousy Management, union militancy and Thatcher wanting to get rid of industry and replace it with financial swindles euphemistically described as Services that parasited on the EU.

Nothing to do with the EU other than it proved a useful Host.
Now we are losing the host, what will the parasites feed off next?

 

[Woosh]

Now we are losing the host, what will the parasites feed off next?

they'll have fewer victims.

 

[oldtom]

What a silly thing to say. Most of the technician posts are now deemed to be the preserve of graduates nowadays.

Please try to apply some joined-up thinking before condemning someone for asking a question!

'Woosh', a man obsessed by facts, figures, statistics, pie charts and graphs, was the contributor who drew a distinction between technicians and graduates, his suggestion appearing to be that technicians are not necessarily the product of our university system.

Regardless of where technicians learn their craft and become qualified, my question, very simply, was where might such technically proficient young people find an outlet for their talents? Given that our industrial manufacturing base has been decimated by the tory class warriors since they gained power in 1979 and have remained in power ever since, where could we find employment for 'technicians'?

'Technician' is really a generic term for 'hands-on' creative talent in various fields, previously known as apprentice-trained, craftsmen/women or tradesmen/women. A famous washing machine manufacturer once coined the phrase, 'The appliance of science!' That pretty well sums up what a technician does in a variety of disciplines.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

" 'Woosh', a man obsessed by facts, figures, statistics, pie charts and graphs, was the contributor who drew a distinction between technicians and graduates, his suggestion appearing to be that technicians are not necessarily the product of our university system."

That's compliment Woosh, from Tom.. I,m impressed.