BH Emotion serious problems

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Which bike are you having?

I hope it arrives on time.

Until the supply situation settles, I would be very wary of ordering anything with the Bosch motor.
A Riese and Müller Delite Hybrid with Rohloff gears and the new Bosch motor, so I need many fingers crossed. To show my faith in the Dealer (Onbike) and the importer of the Grace (Wisper) I am still with them. They did try to get me a result and I have every confidence in them. Riese and Müller seem to be OK in the way they work, time will tell. All will be revealed on here anyway.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
A Riese and Müller Delite Hybrid with Rohloff gears and the new Bosch motor, so I need many fingers crossed. To show my faith in the Dealer (Onbike) and the importer of the Grace (Wisper) I am still with them. They did try to get me a result and I have every confidence in them. Riese and Müller seem to be OK in the way they work, time will tell. All will be revealed on here anyway.
Something like this, presumably: Delite hybrid rohloff/HS | riese und müller

Spec looks good.

I notice they fit the chain tensioner with the hub, some don't, so that's a good indication corners haven't been cut.

Hopefully the only finger crossing you will need to do is for the order to be fulfilled on time.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Croxden,visually that looks a well engineered bike....the photo shows the old Bosch underslung motor,I assume your bike will have the new style motor incorporated into the BB.
Nice bike
KudosDave
Yes it should have the new motor, to see how it looks you have to go onto their web page, scroll down and choose to configure & buy. The pictures change according to the spec. I have tried to save that page but it will not so can't pass it on.

R & M Delite.JPG
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
I notice they fit the chain tensioner with the hub, some don't, so that's a good indication corners haven't been cut.
The chain tensioner is because of the rear suspension, I think to keep it the right tension as the bike flexes.

It would appear my previous problem caused a disagreement between Fallbrook and Gates presumably about the tension that may be a little more with the belt than a chain. If so, it should have been sorted before going on sale.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
delite hybrid II

 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,282
2,252
69
Sevenoaks Kent
Thanks Trex,

Hi Croxden, I have just emailed Steven at Riese & Muller re delivery, I will keep you informed.

I am in Germany at the moment with MIFA/Grace checking out the next Wisper delivery and discussing the the problem between Fallbrook and Grace on the MX. You are correct, the issue was with the belt drive sprocket used on the Nuvinci. The CEO and Chairman of Fallbrook made contact with me through our Facebook page and has intervened, it seems everything has now been resolved, I will be seeing the new set up MX later today.

FYI, we are now in conversation with Bosch/Magura regarding stocking spare parts in Southampton.

All the best.

David.
 
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robbiedog

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 2, 2011
16
0
Uckfield East Sussex
To add my 2 pennys worth, if a Manufacturer deems a component fit to be used on a bike that bears their logo/ branding then surly if that component fails through normal use then the Manufacturer (who ever name/ logo appears on the bike) should bear the cost to fix repair said bike or item, then claim cost back from supplier.

We are a distributor and not a bicycle specialist and do not make or spec the bikes, merely stock promote and sell them, the same applies to the dealer, he does not make or spec the bikes. The manufactures( call them middle men if you like) are the ones who should know better and keep control of the components being fitted to their products and if something goes wrong should step up to the plate and support the customer who has decided to part with his/ hers hard earned cash.

We also provide the point of contact with regards warranty, spares repairs, dealer tech training, support etc but could only offer what was provided by the manufacturer so if they said they had no spares to supply or it would take 3 weeks to supply spares or that part did not fall under warranty then we could not pass any spares on to dealers or customers, we always bent over backwards to provide good support and service for dealers and consumers
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
...

We are a distributor and not a bicycle specialist and do not make or spec the bikes, merely stock promote and sell them, the same applies to the dealer, he does not make or spec the bikes. The manufactures( call them middle men if you like) are the ones who should know better and keep control of the components being fitted to their products and if something goes wrong should step up to the plate and support the customer who has decided to part with his/ hers hard earned cash.
...
more middlemen, that's what's wrong with this country.
Does anyone get their hands dirty any more?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,136
30,556
more middlemen, that's what's wrong with this country.
Does anyone get their hands dirty any more?
Can't operate a smart phone or text with dirty fingers, and that's all the majority of the country seem to do all day long now. When they aren't stuffing their faces with fast food that is.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
Can't operate a smart phone or text with dirty fingers, and that's all the majority of the country seem to do all day long now. When they aren't stuffing their faces with fast food that is.
"Give me large fries with that."

(Sent from my iPhone).
 

ghouluk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2013
329
11
no problem with a supply chain, as long as each step in the chain is adding value to justify the margin they make.....

as i said above, the amount of blamestorming that goes on in the bicycle supply channel is crazy - you guys just all blame each other. If no one charges enough to hold stock of anything you should all put your prices up to be able to sell a supportable product - although it does strike me as odd that some of the smaller brands seem to be able to stock spares and support their products quickly and efficiently whereas the bigger brands seem to struggle to find anything but people to blame .
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
no problem with a supply chain, as long as each step in the chain is adding value to justify the margin they make.....

as i said above, the amount of blamestorming that goes on in the bicycle supply channel is crazy - you guys just all blame each other. If no one charges enough to hold stock of anything you should all put your prices up to be able to sell a supportable product - although it does strike me as odd that some of the smaller brands seem to be able to stock spares and support their products quickly and efficiently whereas the bigger brands seem to struggle to find anything but people to blame .
I have a better idea - cut out the distributor and retailer, let customers buy direct from the brand 'assemblers' at distributor prices and still have the component guarantees of the majority of parts on the bike (which is basically what they wind up with anyway by the sounds of it). That means we can buy bikes for what they are actually worth (half what they are sold for) and lose very little along the way.
 

Electrifying Cycles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2011
1,005
176
For the higher end I can see your argument (where the brands normally assemble the bikes themselves in Europe but some parts still come from the other side of the world as we are all aware).

Although I can not see a manufacturer wanting to deal with customers direct unless they are set up for a business model like that (e.g. where can you try their bike). Also not all high end brands are the same some keep stock of parts. We looked at importing Bosch brand but did not see anything which was much different from what is already distributed, at the moment KTM is probably about the best value.


I certainly think some things should change, just because it has always been that way does not mean things should stay the same. Like some other dealers we carry a range of Bosch parts. Magura carry stock in Europe and it takes a couple of days for the parts to arrive (delay is often due to waiting for bank transfers to clear which can sometimes take a couple of days, ironically a euro payment is transferred quicker than a payment in £'s). The only exception to this is batteries which take a bit longer due to being classed as hazardous goods. Bosch bikes are generally pretty reliable so while there is a large range of parts (particularly once more of the 2014 models arrive) you do not need to carry large numbers of each particular part.
 

ghouluk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2013
329
11
lets be very clear - channels to market make sense unless you know exactly what you want and have the resources, time and ability to manage yourself.

manufacturers take the fixed sales costs they have, subtract those from the RRP and give a portion of that as margin to disti's and resellers to handle that in a many to one way.

the channel needs to be strict and clear, sending customers up the train for direct support doesn't add any value.

either the price is too low, the margins are too low, somebody isn't doing their job responsibly, or all of the above - as i say my hardware guys need 50% to run proper returns supply and sourcing and thats little boxes, not bicycles with loads of components.

manufacturers have a responsibility for known problems and issues, they should be clearly communicating the issue and the process - hopefully to the customer (why else do we register?) but certainly down the channel.

the thing that annoyed me about the bh issue i had is that it was a known faulty batch problem, but i still had to fight tooth and nail, was directed to report it to the manufacturer myself (via an online reporting tool for dealers/distributors) after several emails had gone up and down the chain, and then had to wait for parts from spain, who were on holiday!

I don't think any of us would complain about a few days, even a couple of weeks is acceptable as a one off - its weeks and months as the norm that upsets me (eg my bike took over a week to get from hampshire to stoke, i could have ridden it there in that time!)

anyways, before i give myself a coronary thinking about it, i shall bow out from ranting :)
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
Great... But where are you going to try before you buy?
Shows - failing which for a £1,200 discount I'll take a punt :p ... plus I can take the risk of even a couple of hundred quid in courier costs if something needed to be sent back & forth to Europe for repair of a warranty part. The margin on a high priced bike (which should have decent enough components not to be going wrong much in the first place in any event) just doesn't add up when compared to the value added the customer typically gets.

It's only with high mileage that buying new eBikes starts to make sense and for that you need to be reliably on the road during the initial year of ownership, not waiting around for fixes. My Kalkhoff so far has realistically wound up costing me about £1.50/mile and my need for continued significant mileage out of it is now over. A blooming expensive experiment and learning curve which when I sit down and face up to the maths I wouldn't repeat.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
you don't have to take much risks, buy your bike in France.
Consumer protection laws are so strict that dealers there take service seriously.
Example: Agattu i8 HS, from 50Cycles: reduced from £2395 to £1995
buy in France: Euro 2,049 and there are plenty of e-bike shops in France selling Kalkhoff.

AGATTU I8 HS 8-G 2013, KALKHOFF, velo-electrique
 
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ghouluk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2013
329
11
hmmm hassle of dealing with a good french dealer is greater than hassle of dealing with a bad british dealer.

better option - find a good dealer in the UK who rides, loves and supports his products, i think the rule here is I've learned a somewhat expensive lesson, but i'm still happy when i ride the bike - that trumps everything (as long as i can ride it)

my personal lesson is that next time i'll build or buy from a vendor or dealer who cares (and i'm lucky to have one close to me, just need to get my foot to work with a crank drive bike!)- this is instinctively odd to me, as i've always chosen bikes on how they ride, but in my experience of ebikes, thats 60% of the decision, not 95% where i had it.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
better option - find a good dealer in the UK who rides, loves and supports his products
For most of the UK that's unachievable because such dealers are very few and far between - and for many people far away. If you have to get your bike sent back and forth by courier you may as well be dealing with Europe !