A bit of exaggeration to attract reactions, otherwise nothing new. The flames would be blue at such temperatures and they are not.
Battery Fires
- Thread starter saneagle
- Start date
Was in a battery fire recently. Ist and 2nd degree burns to my hand and foot. Spent 8 days in hospital. On the mend now -thanks to our brilliant NHS....That said, should you be involved in a Lithium battery fire incident,...Get the FOOK AWAY ASAP!....That is what the Fire Brigade told me..Their current policy far as Lithium related fires are concerned is containment.
LG Chem develops flame-retardant material for EV battery
"South Korea's LG Chem said it has come up with a new battery cover material that can withstand a flame burning at 2,732 degrees Fahrenheit for more than 20 minutes."
www.upi.com
"South Korea's LG Chem said it has come up with a new battery cover material that can withstand a flame burning at 2,732 degrees Fahrenheit for more than 20 minutes."
LG Chem develops flame-retardant material for EV battery - UPI.com
South Korea's LG Chem said it has come up with a new battery cover material that can withstand a flame burning at 2,732 degrees Fahrenheit for more than 20 minutes.
www.upi.com
LG Chem develops material blocking battery thermal runaway
The S.Korean chemical giant plans to carry out the new material’s safety verification tests in large EV batteries through 2025
"LG Chem’s battery thermal runaway suppression material is a composite material in the form of a thin layer, just 1 micrometer thick that is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.
It can be placed between the cathode layer and the current collector in the battery, playing the role of an electrical fuse, the Korean chemical giant explained.
When the battery’s temperature rises beyond the normal range, between 90 and 130 degrees Celsius, the newly developed material immediately reacts to the heat, with its maximum electrical resistance shooting up by over 1,000 times compared to that at normal temperatures.
But it is also highly reversible, meaning that the resistance returns to its original state once the temperature drops, allowing the current to return to normal flow.
LG Chem said both battery impact and penetration tests showed that the batteries equipped with the new material layer did not catch fire at all or that the flames were quickly contained, preventing a full-blown thermal runaway. "
The S.Korean chemical giant plans to carry out the new material’s safety verification tests in large EV batteries through 2025
"LG Chem’s battery thermal runaway suppression material is a composite material in the form of a thin layer, just 1 micrometer thick that is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.
It can be placed between the cathode layer and the current collector in the battery, playing the role of an electrical fuse, the Korean chemical giant explained.
When the battery’s temperature rises beyond the normal range, between 90 and 130 degrees Celsius, the newly developed material immediately reacts to the heat, with its maximum electrical resistance shooting up by over 1,000 times compared to that at normal temperatures.
But it is also highly reversible, meaning that the resistance returns to its original state once the temperature drops, allowing the current to return to normal flow.
LG Chem said both battery impact and penetration tests showed that the batteries equipped with the new material layer did not catch fire at all or that the flames were quickly contained, preventing a full-blown thermal runaway. "
LG Chem develops material blocking battery thermal runaway - KED Global
LG Chem Ltd. has developed a material that can prevent thermal runaway in a lithium-ion battery, one of the major hurdles to the expansion of the electric vehi
www.kedglobal.com
LG Chem’s Platform Technology R&D Team has developed a temperature-responsive SRL which suppresses thermal runaway, mitigating one of the biggest EV risks
"The organisation's Platform Technology R&D team has developed a solution to thermal runaway, a leading cause of EV battery fires.
Thermal runaway happens when the anode and cathode inside EV batteries come into direct contact, instantaneously causing a short circuit and generating powerful levels of heat.
Within seconds the temperature can rise to nearly 1000C, creating a fire.
LG Chem's solution to this is a thermal runaway suppression material that quickly blocks the reaction path at the early stages of overheating."
evmagazine.com
"The organisation's Platform Technology R&D team has developed a solution to thermal runaway, a leading cause of EV battery fires.
Thermal runaway happens when the anode and cathode inside EV batteries come into direct contact, instantaneously causing a short circuit and generating powerful levels of heat.
Within seconds the temperature can rise to nearly 1000C, creating a fire.
LG Chem's solution to this is a thermal runaway suppression material that quickly blocks the reaction path at the early stages of overheating."
LG Chem Pioneers Means To Suppress Battery Thermal Runaway
LG Chem’s Platform Technology R&D Team has developed a temperature-responsive SRL which suppresses thermal runaway, mitigating one of the biggest EV risks
evmagazine.com
Just a reminder that lithium batteries burn up to 1400 deg C, which is hot enough to melt steel and concrete, though 700 to 1000 C is more typical. It could be a bit expensive if a hole appeared in your stove.
Please tell us about it. What battery was it? Why did it catch fire? Where was it?
My doing! Was faffing around with a pack comprising 2700 cells trying to separate them for a project I had in mind -power pack for my 24V soldering iron . Accidentally punctured a cell....And KaBOOM!
Discarded single use vapes.
Heard an item on Radio 4 this morning which said 8 million disposable vapes are thrown away in the uk each week. Previously the number was said to be 5 million. All of them contain a lithium cell, some rated at 1 Ahr, and certified for 500 charge cycles. They cause fires in the waste stream when crushed. I sometimes see them lying in the street and if i have a dog poo bag, i pick them up and re- use the cells.
This one was totally flat, after lying in a puddle which activated the vape heater switch, but it charged up fine and when tested on my Chinese battery tester produced 1045 mAhr, so it is bang on its rated capacity. I have run several cycles from it and it is fine.
I use them to replace the many AAA powered bits of nonsense which used to eat 3 AAA cells like this set of led lights. No more bin fulls of dead alkaline batteries.
They are also pretty good in torches.
It seems a horrible waste to be throwing away these cells after one charge / discharge cycle. They come in various sizes ranging from 300 and 500 mAhr to over 1000 mAhr in the different vape styles. The best ones are the big chunky ones.
I use this tiny pocket torch all the time with a small 500 mAhr vape cell in it. There are no street lights where i live and at this time of year we have 17 hours a day of darkness outside, so I always need a torch about me. The tiny torch is always in my trouser pocket and it only needs a top up charge once a week and it is nowhere near flat at that interval. It is very handy.
If you have one of those smallish led battery torches which have a plastic cage inside to carry three series connected AAA batteries, you can drop one of the chunky 1 Ahr vape cells inside if you make a metal spacer to make up for the shorter lithium cell. If you are a bodger like me, just wrap a suitable length of dowel or a snapped pencil in aluminium foil so you can make the contact between the battery negative and the base of the torch where the switch is. If you do that, you will need to insulate the spacer from the torch body otherwise the torch will be on all the time. Just use a sheet of printer paper lightly rolled up so after insertion, it expands out to the torch body and the battery and conductive spacer goes down the middle. That way the negative goes through the contact button at the base of the torch. You'll soon see how to do it if you experiment.
You can also buy tiny lithium charge / control boards from Ali express to fit a bms to the cell. They cost about 80 pence each if you buy five at once from China. That way you can charge with a usb lead without worry about over charging, and the cell can be protected against over discharge or short circuit if you connect it properly.
TP4056 charge control boards 80 pence each on Ali Express.
Heard an item on Radio 4 this morning which said 8 million disposable vapes are thrown away in the uk each week. Previously the number was said to be 5 million. All of them contain a lithium cell, some rated at 1 Ahr, and certified for 500 charge cycles. They cause fires in the waste stream when crushed. I sometimes see them lying in the street and if i have a dog poo bag, i pick them up and re- use the cells.
This one was totally flat, after lying in a puddle which activated the vape heater switch, but it charged up fine and when tested on my Chinese battery tester produced 1045 mAhr, so it is bang on its rated capacity. I have run several cycles from it and it is fine.
I use them to replace the many AAA powered bits of nonsense which used to eat 3 AAA cells like this set of led lights. No more bin fulls of dead alkaline batteries.
They are also pretty good in torches.
It seems a horrible waste to be throwing away these cells after one charge / discharge cycle. They come in various sizes ranging from 300 and 500 mAhr to over 1000 mAhr in the different vape styles. The best ones are the big chunky ones.
I use this tiny pocket torch all the time with a small 500 mAhr vape cell in it. There are no street lights where i live and at this time of year we have 17 hours a day of darkness outside, so I always need a torch about me. The tiny torch is always in my trouser pocket and it only needs a top up charge once a week and it is nowhere near flat at that interval. It is very handy.
If you have one of those smallish led battery torches which have a plastic cage inside to carry three series connected AAA batteries, you can drop one of the chunky 1 Ahr vape cells inside if you make a metal spacer to make up for the shorter lithium cell. If you are a bodger like me, just wrap a suitable length of dowel or a snapped pencil in aluminium foil so you can make the contact between the battery negative and the base of the torch where the switch is. If you do that, you will need to insulate the spacer from the torch body otherwise the torch will be on all the time. Just use a sheet of printer paper lightly rolled up so after insertion, it expands out to the torch body and the battery and conductive spacer goes down the middle. That way the negative goes through the contact button at the base of the torch. You'll soon see how to do it if you experiment.
You can also buy tiny lithium charge / control boards from Ali express to fit a bms to the cell. They cost about 80 pence each if you buy five at once from China. That way you can charge with a usb lead without worry about over charging, and the cell can be protected against over discharge or short circuit if you connect it properly.
TP4056 charge control boards 80 pence each on Ali Express.
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TP4056 charge and output controller fitted to 1Ahr salvaged lithium vape battery. Now it can be properly charged by a USB C lead, and battery low voltage protection means it can be left on without concern.
Total cost £0.80.
Blue light comes on when charge terminates. Red while charging.
EDIT:
Here is a better arrangement. Fun for free - and useful too.
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Thermal runaway prevention through scalable fabrication of safety reinforced layer in practical Li-ion batteries
Not so sure about the blue flame point. We are talking about burning metals in an oxygen rich environment not the flame from a gas torch.
People who design fireworks employ a variety of metals to produce all kinds of colour display in their slow and fast burning mixtures. The temperatures of these explosive chemical reactions are very high - typically about 1600 C, and depending on what metals are being burned, you get a whole range of colours. Copper produces a bright green flame, iron and sodium orange, potassium, bright red, and calcium brick red. Lithium has a faintly red tinged flame, aluminium and magnesium produce extremely bright white flames. The temperatures of these burning mixtures are very high since the combustion involves oxidising chemicals like potassium nitrate which liberate large amounts of oxygen to facilitate the very hot and rapid combustion.
I remember as a kid of about ten being amazed when the science teacher set fire to iron filings in a jar of oxygen. He heated up a metal ladle of iron filings and stuck it in a jar of oxygen and it went off like a fire work.
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Quantitative Fire Risk Assessment of Battery Home Storage Systems in Comparison to General House Fires in Germany and Other Battery Related Fires
Quantitative Fire Risk Assessment of Battery Home Storage Systems in Comparison to General House Fires in Germany and Other Battery Related Fires
Battery storage systems are becoming an integral part of the energy transition, as they offer the possibility of bridging time windows in which self-generated r
papers.ssrn.com
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Rechargeable battery fires are rising, warn firefighters
House fires involving rechargeable electrical devices such as vapes, laptops and e-bikes are on the rise.
www.firescotland.gov.uk
House fires involving rechargeable electrical devices such as vapes, laptops and e-bikes are on the rise.
Rechargeable battery fires are rising, warn firefighters
House fires involving rechargeable electrical devices such as vapes, laptops and e-bikes are on the rise.
www.firescotland.gov.uk
Lithium batteries can start fires.
However - this thread is totally hyperbolic. The number of battery fires is so small in the context of house fire data that this insurance company doesn't even list them on the causes of house fires.
Look at the page .....
By far, the biggest cause of house fires in the UK is cooking appliances, accounting for 44% of all fires.
Causes of house fires in England in 2023/24
House fire rates are falling steadily and have been for years.
House fires attended in the past 10 years
Hardly any of these were caused by e-bikes or lithium batteries.
Some people are bizarrely obsessed by e-bike fires. They are almost all caused by total knackers with franken bikes which are vastly illegal, horribly over-powered and owned and run my mental defectives.
Accidental fires started by smoking materials such as cigarettes kill more people than any other type of fire.
House fire-related deaths by the source of ignition in England in 2022/23
For more information visit www.gov.uk/government/fire-prevention-and-rescue
However - this thread is totally hyperbolic. The number of battery fires is so small in the context of house fire data that this insurance company doesn't even list them on the causes of house fires.
Look at the page .....
By far, the biggest cause of house fires in the UK is cooking appliances, accounting for 44% of all fires.
| Cause of fire | Incidents | % of total |
|---|---|---|
| Cooking appliances | 10,176 | 44% |
| Electrical distribution | 3,148 | 14% |
| Other electrical appliances | 2,658 | 12% |
| Smoking-related materials | 1,522 | 7% |
| Matches & candles | 926 | 4% |
| Space heating appliances | 761 | 3% |
| Central and water heating appliances | 177 | 1% |
| Cigarette lighters | 149 | 1% |
| Matches | 117 | 1% |
| Blowlamps, welding and cutting equipment | 106 | 0% |
| Unspecified | 3,268 | 14% |
House fire rates are falling steadily and have been for years.
| Year | Total house fires in Great Britain |
|---|---|
| 2013/14 | 39,145 |
| 2014/15 | 38,719 |
| 2015/16 | 38,825 |
| 2016/17 | 37,753 |
| 2017/18 | 37,752 |
| 2018/19 | 36,299 |
| 2019/20 | 35,024 |
| 2020/21 | 33,183 |
| 2021/22 | 33,393 |
| 2022/23 | 32,682 |
Hardly any of these were caused by e-bikes or lithium batteries.
Some people are bizarrely obsessed by e-bike fires. They are almost all caused by total knackers with franken bikes which are vastly illegal, horribly over-powered and owned and run my mental defectives.
Accidental fires started by smoking materials such as cigarettes kill more people than any other type of fire.
| Source of fire | Number of deaths | Percentage of total |
|---|---|---|
| Smokers’ materials | 74 | 28% |
| Cooking appliances | 19 | 7% |
| Electrical distribution | 18 | 7% |
| Cigarette lighters | 14 | 5% |
| Space heating appliances | 12 | 5% |
| Candles | 12 | 5% |
| Other electrical appliances | 10 | 4% |
| Matches | 7 | 3% |
| Other / Unspecified | 99 | 37% |
For more information visit www.gov.uk/government/fire-prevention-and-rescue
Here is another report from Salmon Assessors who deal with fire claims. Again - not a mention of e-bikes.
Lenny - is the topic of e-bike fires becoming an obsession? You post threads about it almost every day.
www.insuranceclaims.co.uk
The most common causes of house fires:
I
Lenny - is the topic of e-bike fires becoming an obsession? You post threads about it almost every day.
House Fire Statistics
The latest house fire statistics, updated for November 2024. Gain insights into the statistics, trends and devastating impacts of house fires.
www.insuranceclaims.co.uk
The most common causes of house fires:
| The origin of the fire | Percentage |
| Cooking | 49% |
| Heating | 13% |
| Faulty wiring | 9% |
| Arson | 9% |
| Other | 6% |
| Smoking | 5% |
| Clothes dryers, and other appliances | 4% |
| Fire in the neighbouring home | 3% |
| Candles | 2% |
I like Lenny's posts. The fire topic is extremely important for the future of the e-bike trade. Hands up whoever sold more e-bikes this year than last year or the year before that.
Of course you like them. You want to shut down easy battery sales for your own commercial reasons.
The fact is that the constant harping about the issue causes fear and concern.
This has led to people that I know being refused service at hotels when they turned up on e-bikes. It might suit you Tony, but it doesn't suit or help the mass of e-bike users.
The FACT is that e-bikes and lithium batteries in general don't even cause 1% of fires - way way less than that, and that when e-bike fires do occur they are ALMOST ALWAYS caused by grotesque misuse of batteries and mostly in home constructed monsters with multiple battery packs cobbled together without proper electrical protection. Notice that NONE of the insurance bodies I quoted even mention them. Candles are FAR more dangerous. Smoking causes the most deaths and cooking causes most fires.
This is what the DATA shows.
If you are selling fewer e-bikes than last year, it is probably likely that fear promoted by the stuff Lenny is hyping every other day is the cause. It is not because everyone's e-bike is a potential incendiary bomb. They bloody well are not that.
I do agree that the hyping is bad for everyone using an e-bike but the problem with dodgy batteries, untested, unmonitored fast chargers and twin battery kits that are lashed together with gaffer tapes and terminal strips that I see in Southend High Street need to be eliminated as soon as. Batteries need test approval stickers, cables must be waterproof and certified types to prevent fires.
Will the lithium-ion battery boom trigger an insurance bust?
The rising use of lithium-ion batteries is increasing fire risks, prompting concerns and potential policy changes within the insurance industry. How will the industry respond to these challenges?
www.insurancetimes.co.uk
Home insurance fire claims now top £24,000
Insurers and the London Fire Brigade are warning of the risks of lithium-ion battery fires, which are causing a huge spike in the value of domestic fire claims.
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