Battery Fires

[lenny]

Boy 'saved siblings' before death in e-bike fire

"A boy who died in a fire caused by a faulty lithium e-bike battery "saved his siblings" by alerting them the device was making strange noises.

Luke Albiston-O'Donnell, 8, was unable to escape his home in Birkenhead, Wirral, in the early hours of 4 August this year, in part due to a leg injury.

But Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service (MFRS) said his warning may have saved his two brothers and sister, who were able to climb out of an upstairs window at their home in Keele Close. "

Birkenhead: Boy 'saved siblings' before death in e-battery fire

Luke Albiston-O'Donnell alerted his three siblings, but could not escape himself due to a leg injury.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[georgehenry]

I still use a double ladder gets me well above my roof height.

 

[lenny]

"Why do PMDs catch on fire while charging? Bobby explains 3 MAJOR DIFFERENCES between UL2271 battery and NON CERTIFIED"

11K views · 87 reactions | Why do PMDs catch on fire while charging? Bobby explains 3 MAJOR DIFFERENCES between UL2271 battery and ❌NON CERTIFIED batteries. | By Mobot | Facebook

Why do PMDs catch on fire while charging? Bobby explains 3 MAJOR DIFFERENCES between UL2271 battery and ❌NON CERTIFIED batteries.

www.facebook.com

 

[MikelBikel]

"Has to have a diesel heater coz the batteries can't cope". Well, if the motor was diesel too, the bus would be a quarter of the price, and you get safe heat for free, ching ching!

 

[lenny]

UK e-bike fire incidents surge as QBE urges safer purchases

Fires caused by cheap components highlight the need for certified products

"Recent data from QBE reveals that UK fire services responded to 70% more e-bike fires and 7% more e-scooter fires in 2023 compared to 2022.

The total number of fires linked to lithium-ion batteries rose by 46% over the same period, with 921 incidents recorded in 2023, up from 630 the previous year. Fires involving e-bikes increased from 158 to 270, while e-scooter incidents rose from 117 to 125."

UK e-bike fire incidents surge as QBE urges safer purchases

Fires caused by cheap components highlight the need for certified products

www.insurancebusinessmag.com

 

[Vin]

A year or 2 ago I started getting battery messages on my Dell laptop which was probaby about 4 years old indicating if I remember correctly the battery was due for replacement. As it was only being used plugged in at home I decided to remove the battery. This wasn't a pop out battery. The laptop needed to be taken apart. I discovered the whole battery had puffed up like the michelin man. The e bikes I have would all be considered to be from proper retailers. Two of them (from a Raleigh Array & Carrera e vengeance womens) are about 8 years old now though. They still hold good charge and have never been knocked. I decided not to store them in an unheated outbuilding as thought this could cause problems and they are stored in one of the living rooms. I now have another Argos Ebike which came with the standard type rack battery. Have been thinking more about this recently and although not necessary today bought this with the intention of lining it with fire bricks and hanging one of those ufo type automatic for extinguishers inside (probably space for 1 or 2kg powder) from the top. Total cost would be about £40 and it would be used to store them.

Small Filing Cabinet Mobile Office Pedestal | eBay

We have a large multifuel stove with double doors which is unused and could take an ammo box or two easily and could be used to charge them. Will probably go ahead with this prompted by the overall issue around e bikes but in the house there are multiple devices by all the family now which use li ion batteries.

 

[Az.]

We have a large multifuel stove with double doors which is unused and could take an ammo box or two easily and could be used to charge them.

Keeping battery in stove does make sense. £4.50 filing cabinet is useless.
Why would you need ammo box in stove?

 

[Vin]

Keeping battery in stove does make sense. £4.50 filing cabinet is useless.
Why would you need ammo box in stove?

Mainly to keep all the parts clean. You could clean out the firebox . Particles/ bits do fall down from the chimney. The anti arson letterbox
SURE24 Slimline Anti Arson Post Box - L30466 - LockMonster.co.uk
Similar ones have what looks like a a small piece of silicone tube containing an heat activated extinguisher. I guess this is designed to deal with something smaller scale than the potential of several large ebike lion batteries stored together where one of them goes wrong and it spreads. Obviously I am no expert at all and it is just an idea that lining a metal box with fire bricks and placing some underneath in a specific area away from flammables and main exits as well as adding a powerful automatic fire extinguisher inside with a heat alarm outside may buy you more time than leaving them next to a sofa by the curtains

 

[Az.]

Mainly to keep all the parts clean. You could clean out the firebox . Particles/ bits do fall down from the chimney. The anti arson letterbox
SURE24 Slimline Anti Arson Post Box - L30466 - LockMonster.co.uk
Similar ones have what looks like a a small piece of silicone tube containing an heat activated extinguisher. I guess this is designed to deal with something smaller scale than the potential of several large ebike lion batteries stored together where one of them goes wrong and it spreads. Obviously I am no expert at all and it is just an idea that lining a metal box with fire bricks and placing some underneath in a specific area away from flammables and main exits as well as adding a powerful automatic fire extinguisher inside with a heat alarm outside may buy you more time than leaving them next to a sofa by the curtains

It is a huge amount of toxic and flammable smoke which is the problem, not the fire itself. That is why I think stove is a good idea as smoke would be directed outside your house. Traditional extinguishers are ineffective against battery fire.

 

[Vin]

Thanks

 

[Az.]

Thanks

Looks great. If you want to treat your battery, put it in sealed plastic bag with some moisture absorbent.

...and don't be overly concerned. Battery fires panic in media are spread by petrol lobby. Having that said, it is better to be safe than sorry.

 

[jamesporritt]

Thanks

Lithium burns hotter than the melting point of iron.

 

[Ghost1951]

Lithium burns hotter than the melting point of iron.

How much lithium do you think there is in a lithium ion cell?

Surprisingly little. It is literally just a pinch - 0.6gm to 0.7gms in an 18650 cell.. Most of the fire comes from the liberated electric power and the volatile electrolyte used. The cathode metal compounds such as lithium cobalt oxide, and nickel and manganese oxides release oxygen when heated, so they become oxidisers like potassium nitrate does in gunpowder.

Lithium iron phosphate battery chemistry avoids all of this. They don't catch fire and even when punctured by a big nail, they only fizz and produce smoke. They also have the pinch of lithium too.

Most reactive metals burn hotter than the melting point of iron. Even iron can burn at nearly 1300 c in oxygen. Aluminium powder is burned along with rubber in solid rocket fuels and magnesium is hotter still.

 

[lenny]

"Fire ignition establishes that the cathode of the battery can catch fire. The burning lithium creates a metal fire existing at temperatures of 2,000 degrees Celsius/3632 degrees Fahrenheit."

Lithium-Ion Batteries and Electrical Fires | Envista Forensics

If a lithium-ion battery fails, it could burst into flame. Read more on how these fires start, and the advantages and disadvantages of lithium-ion batteries.

www.envistaforensics.com

 

[Ghost1951]

"Fire ignition establishes that the cathode of the battery can catch fire. The burning lithium creates a metal fire existing at temperatures of 2,000 degrees Celsius/3632 degrees Fahrenheit."

Lithium-Ion Batteries and Electrical Fires | Envista Forensics

If a lithium-ion battery fails, it could burst into flame. Read more on how these fires start, and the advantages and disadvantages of lithium-ion batteries.

www.envistaforensics.com

Total lithium content of an average 18650 cell is just over half a gram. It is literally a pinch of the stuff. It burns, but so does the cobalt oxide or manganese oxide cathode material and so does the volatile electrolite. If lithium was the main issue - why don't lifepo4 NOT burn up like fireworks? They contain the same amount of lithium salts too.

 

[lenny]

 

[soundwave]

making fizzing noise when charging

still can use them just wired as cant get a 18650 fit in there and fook lipos

 

[AndyBike]

Lithium burns hotter than the melting point of iron.

I think its actually about half that. iron melts at 1500c and lithium is 800c tops

Either way though its bloody hot and will cause serious damage to your hall rug

 

[lenny]

"
"

https://www.ajg.com/-/media/files/gallagher/global/insights/lithium-ion-fires.pdf

 

[lenny]

"Typically, an EV fire burns at roughly 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit (2,760 Celsius"

Lithium-ion battery fires are a growing public safety concern − here’s how to reduce the risk

Lithium-ion batteries power many electric cars, bikes and scooters. When they are damaged or overheated, they can ignite or explode. Four engineers explain how to handle these devices safely.

theconversation.com