Approved ebike list?
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
Thanks, as mentioned above, a link to the legislation that allows this would be very useful.
I have a rather nasty feeling, having dealt with another government regulator, that there may be a mismatch between what has been said in meetings and correspondence and what is actually written in black and white in the relevant statutes!
Personally I am against the throttle unless absolutely essential. However feedback from their (BEBA) survey has shown that a number of people find the throttle useful and would not ride an electric bike without one. I have also had customers specifically ask for them so there is clearly a demand. If you search BEBA survey on here you could probably find a information about the survey. I am sure BEBA would be interested to hear you views.
That's not a very nice thing to say! Thankfully, it doesn't look like my bike will need to be destroyed. This is good news for me because I can't afford a new one.
I'd be correct in thinking that your two sentences of nastiness are borne out of my earlier post in the thread concerning cwah's unfortunate accident. The one where you advocated lying, fraud, perverting the course of justice and the making of a false statement in order to escape the consequences of your actions, whilst simultaneously wanting the law to work exclusively in your favour. I'm not perfect and I can think of instances where, on reflection, I have been guilty of hypocrisy, but never to the extent that you seem content to recommend.
Its telling that you have not responded to my original thoughts in cwah's accident thread, preferring instead to make nasty comments in other unrelated threads. Perhaps it is the case that you are incapable of constructing a counter view point and instead prefer follow my posts in other threads, making snide comments.
Your post in the other thread actually constitutes an offence of Encouraging (perverting the course of justice. Contrary to The Serious Crime Act 2007. Hardly crime of the centurary and I doubt anyone is interested, but a crime none the less.
You are actually coming across as quite a dishonest, untrustworthy and nasty individual.
I've just had a thought that might be worth checking out. Some government regulators (and I'm familiar with the CAA, who also report to DfT) have the authority to issue temporary exemptions (valid for a maximum of one year, but renewable) to some provisions in Statute Law. In the case of the CAA they are empowered to issue temporary exemptions to parts of the Air Navigation Order, and do so from time to time.
Usually such exemptions show up when doing a search on the legislation, and in this case I haven't been able to find any. However, it may be possible that the DfT have issued exemptions to SI 1168 and SI 1176 that allows a hybrid mix of these regulations with those in EN15194. If so, then publicising these exemptions, and making sure they are renewed annually (the CAA were often lax about renewals!) might be very useful.
Usually such exemptions show up when doing a search on the legislation, and in this case I haven't been able to find any. However, it may be possible that the DfT have issued exemptions to SI 1168 and SI 1176 that allows a hybrid mix of these regulations with those in EN15194. If so, then publicising these exemptions, and making sure they are renewed annually (the CAA were often lax about renewals!) might be very useful.
Sounds very complicated, I think a couple a 1000 watt motors might be more useful to evade capture.
Last edited:
Having been dealing with this stuff for around ten or twelve years I'm getting used to it, but you are right, it is complicated and often illogical to boot.
Common sense rarely seems to make itself felt in Statute Law, not helped by the fact that many of the officials in the government departments concerned don't seem overly bothered by getting things right. I've lost count of the times I've been told that something was OK, when the law says it isn't, and sometimes vice versa. It's made me deeply suspicious of anything said or written by officials until it gets incorporated into Statute.
If anyone wants to check through the laws that apply for themselves, then here are some links, with a brief description of each:
First of all, this is the current regulation that covers pedal cycles: The Pedal Bicycles (Safety) Regulations 2010
Note that it doesn't apply to ebikes, as stated in clause 2, and is only included here for completeness:
"2. In these Regulations, “bicycle” means a two-wheeled vehicle that is propelled solely by the muscular energy of a person on that vehicle by means of pedals and has not been constructed or adapted for propulsion by mechanical power; and the expression “bicycle” includes a substantially complete vehicle (whether or not assembled) even if one or more parts are not supplied."
Ebikes are covered by the following statutes:
The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983
This is the core statute that covers Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles in UK law. Note that this is not the complete regulation, the provisions of the Construction and Use regulations in this statute also apply:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1176/pdfs/uksi_19831176_en.pdf
Finally, EU approved ebikes have to be approved to these regulations, EN15194 (note that this is the French version in English, it is the same as the English version but the UK haven't got around to publishing it on the internet):
http://www.vae-enov.com/fiches_2010/norme_en_15194.pdf
I haven't been able to find any exemptions to the UK EAPC regulations (which doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any) nor have I been able to find any legislation that allows the provisions of EN 15194 to be changed to allow the use of throttles in the UK.
If anyone has better Googling power and can unearth legislation that I have missed, then I would be very interested in seeing it, and I'd be more than happy to be shown to be wrong.
First of all, this is the current regulation that covers pedal cycles: The Pedal Bicycles (Safety) Regulations 2010
Note that it doesn't apply to ebikes, as stated in clause 2, and is only included here for completeness:
"2. In these Regulations, “bicycle” means a two-wheeled vehicle that is propelled solely by the muscular energy of a person on that vehicle by means of pedals and has not been constructed or adapted for propulsion by mechanical power; and the expression “bicycle” includes a substantially complete vehicle (whether or not assembled) even if one or more parts are not supplied."
Ebikes are covered by the following statutes:
The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983
This is the core statute that covers Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles in UK law. Note that this is not the complete regulation, the provisions of the Construction and Use regulations in this statute also apply:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1176/pdfs/uksi_19831176_en.pdf
Finally, EU approved ebikes have to be approved to these regulations, EN15194 (note that this is the French version in English, it is the same as the English version but the UK haven't got around to publishing it on the internet):
http://www.vae-enov.com/fiches_2010/norme_en_15194.pdf
I haven't been able to find any exemptions to the UK EAPC regulations (which doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any) nor have I been able to find any legislation that allows the provisions of EN 15194 to be changed to allow the use of throttles in the UK.
If anyone has better Googling power and can unearth legislation that I have missed, then I would be very interested in seeing it, and I'd be more than happy to be shown to be wrong.
I'm quite sure there aren't any official exemptions Jeremy since the DfT would have revealed these in connection with a recent issue if they existed. We have a "blind eye" situation vis-a-vis the 250 watts issue until the revised regulations come into force.
Whether that will extend to a throttle and 250 watt combination after the regulation change is a moot point. At present I think that is something that will be ignored for expedience, but if the revision doesn't permit throttles in future, any 250 watt throttle controlled bike will be illegal. That will include all existing ones. Freedom from retrospective force for the revised regulations will only apply to bikes that are strictly legal now, and throttle controlled 250 watt e-bikes are not.
In the December edition of A-to-B magazine, David Henshaw has posted an interesting news item regarding type approval testing for all individual designs of throttle controlled e-bikes for UK use.
Rather than post copyright material, I will leave those interested to access the site for themselves.
Rather than post copyright material, I will leave those interested to access the site for themselves.
I am sorry that statement is not necessarily correct,there is nothing in the BEBA rules that requires BEBA members to sell bikes that meet a recognised quality standard. It would be good to see BEBA taking a forward view and insist that any bike imported/sold by a BEBA member meets EN15194,soon we wil all have to meet this standard anyway-BEBA membership would then be a recognition of meeting an acceptable quality standard.
Dave
Kudoscycles
Last edited:
Jeremy,actually it is not the 'generic Chinese bikes' that usually have problems with illegality or not meeting a standard. It is ironic that the powerful SFS and TUF standards organisations have many offices in China and it's straightforward to get EN15194 standard on the Chinese bikes,most have standard components such as the Bafang motor and controller which are well known to the standard organisations.
The problems with illegality tend to be the small volume suppliers producing high powered bikes to satisfy a small market who finds such machines attractive or those bringing S class bikes into the UK and not properly SVA them-for that think mini moped,no cycle track usage.
In fact although TUV have offices in the UK I would think it would be both difficult and expensive to get a UK manufactured bike through EN15194-shame really.
Dave
Kudoscycles
All Kudos bikes meet EN15194 standard,we have copies of all the certificates in our files.
Dave
Kudoscycles
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
I think that everything in this thread is totally wrong. Many people that read this forum have bought bikes from reputable sources in good faith, and your scaring them into not using them because they'll now be thinking that they're illegal when they're not - just like that poor guy with the scooter. It started with a premise that has never been tested in law, and until it is there's little to worry about. Even if your bike doesn't comply with EN15194, you've got more chance of winning the lottery jackpot than being prosecuted for having an illegal bike. We should be encouraging people onto ebikes, not scaring them off them.
In the meantime, I'll carry on riding and enjoying mine.
In the meantime, I'll carry on riding and enjoying mine.
The law is in such a mess at the moment and so many grey areas that are open to interpretation,until our government finally signs up to EN15194.However I think we can all agree that now and in the future anything above 250 watts is illegal-I am aware that strictly the law says 200 watts but if you adhere to that 90 per cent of ebikes would be illegal.
In my opinion-If your bike is 250 watts and below you are unlikely to have any problems with the police,certainly none of my customers has had any problems.
If you buy a bike with EN15194 that is a reasonable guarantee that your bike will be legal post legislation for I just cannot see our government inventing its own standard when the EU standard has proven very workable for the rest of Europe.
Dave
Kudoscycles
In my opinion-If your bike is 250 watts and below you are unlikely to have any problems with the police,certainly none of my customers has had any problems.
If you buy a bike with EN15194 that is a reasonable guarantee that your bike will be legal post legislation for I just cannot see our government inventing its own standard when the EU standard has proven very workable for the rest of Europe.
Dave
Kudoscycles
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Not sure why you posted that. It has nothing to do with electric bikes. It was a stand-on scooter without pedals. There was also a guy prosecuted for using a Segway, but that isn't a bike either.
It was an appeal based on the existing law, which was lost, as the court applied the letter of the law.
Therefore any ebike not meeting the letter of the law if brought to court would probably meet with the same result.
Costs were also awarded.
Therefore any ebike not meeting the letter of the law if brought to court would probably meet with the same result.
Costs were also awarded.
Last edited:
And that would bring with it all the kangaroo court Medieval nonsense that any matter decided before Mags brings.... so woes betide you if you are caught in a part of the country where someone sitting on the bench has a bee in their bonnet about things - or congratulations for dancing out of the courtroom with a slap on the wrists if you live in a part of the country where they are relatively sympathetic. Absolute joke the whole sorry system.
Hmmm .... I am inclined to think you may have a point ....
250W eBikes with throttles differ from this case in that they are clearly capable of being riden as regular bicycles. It seems the target may have been the victim of the PCs decision to vent their feelings on a customer of the supplier. But the point is valid ... driving without insurance is one of the likely charges if a bike is deemed not to conform. If you've no licence then driving without a licence is another. If you're disqualified then things are more serious - going to prison / suspended sentence / community service is the likely outcome of being found to be in control of a motor vehicle on a public highway. Or at the very least a 3 year ban.
To be honest, it's only those who find themselves in the latter unfortunate position who are likely to have the book thrown at them in a serious way ... and therefore would be best off sicking to either a 250W PAC-only bike or a 200W with throttle. The mags (especially in places like New Forest where I am told they have a paranoically unbalanced zero-tolerance attitude to this sort of thing) would not hesitate to throw people in jail if they have any excuse at all over anything driving-related which carries such a potential sanction.
Last edited:
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
