Approved ebike list?

[Jeremy]

Assuming we are accepting that ONLY bikes that comply with either the UK standard OR the EU standard there are a hell of a lot of illegal bikes being used by people on here.

Nearly all those with a throttle for starters as they are mainly EU standard (250watt) bikes and that standard does not allow for a throttle at all. Bike must comply with one standard or the other you cant mix and match to suit yourself which is what most suppliers appear to be doing.

Not saying this is right or fair but certainly as I see it a matter of fact ?

Oh another question if you are sold a bike as UK legal and it isnt and you get prosecuted can you go after the supplier for damages ?

I share this view, I think there are a very large number of illegal ebikes around, as many vendors have been rather lax about ensuring that the products they are selling are approved and legal. They aren't committing an offence by selling unapproved ebikes, the offence is only committed if a buyer uses the bike in a publicly accessible place.

There is recompense via Trading Standards. We did this in the Southampton case, but by the time Trading Standards got hold of the vendor he'd shut up shop and moved elsewhere.

If you were prosecuted, then you wouldn't be able to claim damages from the vendor, but you might be able to take action against them for misrepresentation in their advertising. However, my recent experience of trawling adverts shows that very few vendors are clear about the legality of their bikes, they are leaving the checking up to customers, under caveat emptor...............

 

[jazper53]

Assuming we are accepting that ONLY bikes that comply with either the UK standard OR the EU standard there are a hell of a lot of illegal bikes being used by people on here.

Nearly all those with a throttle for starters as they are mainly EU standard (250watt) bikes and that standard does not allow for a throttle at all. Bike must comply with one standard or the other you cant mix and match to suit yourself which is what most suppliers appear to be doing.

Not saying this is right or fair but certainly as I see it a matter of fact ?

Oh another question if you are sold a bike as UK legal and it isnt and you get prosecuted can you go after the supplier for damages ?

The fact is: The industry will be led by the consumer, despite the law, without the customer you dont have a industry, just a load of confusing laws. Most Vendors already know this and are tip-toeing between the shadows to maintain their business and keeping the industry alive.

 

[Jeremy]

BEBA Code of practice:

"6. Only market models that meet the current legal requirements."

but are they approved?

I'll check this tomorrow, by emailing a few of them who have ebikes that might meet the ladies needs and budget and asking.

 

[Jeremy]

It has been said that the law is an ass. Surely it should come as no surprise when people hold the law in contempt. So it would seem that it if someone buys a bike, the onus is on them to determine if it is legal or illegal. Imagine how ridiculous it would be if this principle was extended to everyday life. Suppose you bought a packet of mixed herbs for cooking. It would be your duty to analyse the contents, and do a chemical test for THC in case cannabis was present. Buying talcum powder? It is your duty to do a chemical analysis, in case it is really cocaine. People would starve to death, because with all this testing for illegal substances, they would not have time to eat.

It is a bit daft, isn't it?

It's a bit like the CB radio fiasco back in the late 70's, when dealers were openly selling products that couldn't be used in the UK. This has been repeated with those selling GoPeds, MiniMotos etc.

It's about time we closed this loophole. If something is offered for sale then it should be the vendors responsibility to ensure it can be legally used.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Please see of link below (page 5 onwards) which provides an update of the latest situation. However any changes will not be back dated so any bike legal now will not suddenly become illegal. Although obviously nothing is official regarding what the new laws will be but the forum thread is a good guide to how legislation will probably change. Therefore the best advice is buy a bike which is currently legal i.e. 250 watt motor and assistance up to 25km (15.5mph). Currently independant throttles are legal in the UK up to the legal assistance limit.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13148-beba-uk-survey-results-executive-summary-7.html

 

[Cyclezee]

I can confirm that all eZee bikes have "VERIFICATION OF EN 15194 COMPLIANCE" for Electrically Power Assisted Cycles (EPAC).

 

[GaRRy]

P currently legal i.e. 250 watt motor and assistance up to 25km (15.5mph). Currently independant throttles are legal in the UK up to the legal assistance limit.
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Are you totally sure of this, The throttle part of current legislation does not apply to the EU standard just the current UK one which only allows a 200W so as I see it any bike with more than 200W and a throttle is actually illegal as it does not meet either current standard ?. I know BEBA and others are trying to get throttles allowed as a amendment to the EU law but that still may not cover existing bikes as it may only apply to new bikes ?

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Regarding approval I would have thought most importers would be happy to confirm their bikes are approved in writing. Key thing is that you can show they meet current legislation i.e. handbook outlining bike specficiation.

Someone selling a bike which they confirm to a customer is legal would be very vulnerable if this was not the case. This would be missselling.

I think the problem here is that there is a slightly different law in the UK to the rest of Europe. However the UK law will be adjusted in due course.

 

[Jeremy]

Thanks for that added info. The well-known brands with clear approval aren't primarily the issue, it's the many vendors out there selling ebikes who are, shall we say, a little coy about the approval status of their products.

The main "offenders", if that's not too strong a term, seem to be those reselling generic Far Eastern ebikes, few of which seem to have been approved to any standard, as far as I have seen.

 

[Jeremy]

Regarding approval I would have thought most importers would be happy to confirm their bikes are approved in writing. Key thing is that you can show they meet current legislation i.e. handbook outlining bike specficiation.

Someone selling a bike which they confirm to a customer is legal would be very vulnerable if this was not the case. This would be missselling.

I think the problem here is that there is a slightly different law in the UK to the rest of Europe. However the UK law will be adjusted in due course.

I'm afraid the law requires more than a handbook outlining the specification. If the ebike meets the EU EPAC regulations, then that requires verification, not a statement in a handbook. Similarly, if the ebike meets the two UK Statutory Instruments, then the motor power output needs to be tested to BS1727: 1971 and it also has to have the mandatory data plate on the frame. Again, a statement in a handbook does not meet this requirement.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I almost certain 250watt bikes with throttle are legal . This may change with future legislation BEBA are pressing for this to be continued. I will try and get something concrete from BEBA to overcome concerns raised as appreciate this area can be complex.

 

[Jeremy]

Are you totally sure of this, The throttle part of current legislation does not apply to the EU standard just the current UK one which only allows a 200W so as I see it any bike with more than 200W and a throttle is actually illegal as it does not meet either current standard ?. I know BEBA and others are trying to get throttles allowed as a amendment to the EU law but that still may not cover existing bikes as it may only apply to new bikes ?

I've been through all of the legislation with a finetooth comb. There is no legal ruling anywhere that I can find that allows a throttle to be used on an ebike approved to EN15194. A throttle can be used on a 200W ebike approved to the UK EAPC regulations.

There are various informal observations made by departmental officials in meetings, but the government has not put any of these into legislation yet, so they have no legal standing.

 

[Jeremy]

I almost certain 250watt bikes with throttle are legal . This may change with future legislation BEBA are pressing for this to be continued. I will try and get something concrete from BEBA to overcome concerns raised as appreciate this area can be complex.

As I've written above, I can find no legislation that allows this. If you can provide a link to it I would be very grateful.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I'm afraid the law requires more than a handbook outlining the specification. If the ebike meets the EU EPAC regulations, then that requires verification, not a statement in a handbook. Similarly, if the ebike meets the two UK Statutory Instruments, then the motor power output needs to be tested to BS1727: 1971 and it also has to have the mandatory data plate on the frame. Again, a statement in a handbook does not meet this requirement.

Alot of the bike have the EN 15194 standard but this is normally a sticker and I know our bikes adhere to the regulation. However I would expect reputable importers to confirm their adherence to this and that they are legal. If in doubt I would ask for an email confirming this.

 

[jazper53]

As I've written above, I can find no legislation that allows this. If you can provide a link to it I would be very grateful.

Flec did clarify 200watt with full throttle legal
250watt without throttle legal
250watt with throttle illegal
possible new legislation allows limited throttle (6mph Max) with 250watt

 

[Old_Dave]

Don't forget the momentary switch that needs to be depressed thats required for the throttle


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[Jeremy]

Alot of the bike have the EN 15194 standard but this is normally a sticker and I know our bikes adhere to the regulation. However I would expect reputable importers to confirm their adherence to this and that they are legal. If in doubt I would ask for an email confirming this.

AFAICS, it's only ebikes approved under the UK EAPC regulations that need a data plate, all that's needed for an ebike approved under EN15194 is verification of approval. A sticker is useful, but not, AFAICS, essential.

I've already compiled an email requesting confirmation from some vendors that look like they have ebikes that might suit this ladies needs. Hopefully I'll get some positive responses.

If I may make a suggestion, via BEBA, it would be that your members might wish to consider being clearer about their approvals. I believe that it is potentially a valuable selling point, and would reassure customers who may have already encountered some of the antics of the "cheap import brigade".

 

[indalo]

I almost certain 250watt bikes with throttle are legal . This may change with future legislation BEBA are pressing for this to be continued. I will try and get something concrete from BEBA to overcome concerns raised as appreciate this area can be complex.

Is it only BEBA which is campaigning to retain throttles? Does anyone know if any other ebiking representative groups elsewhere in europe are vociferous on this issue?

Although there are some who try to insist a throttle is essential for them on an electric bike, I remain unconvinced by the reasons proffered and feel that BEBA would be better employed pursuing other ends such as standards harmonisation, common low-cost, type approval certification and pan european legal definitions.

Much as I would like all British sellers of ebikes to subscribe to a set of standards, similar to but better than the BEBA charter for want of a better description, I have some concerns about the current grouping behaving like an exclusive club to the detriment of some others. I just get that uncomfortable feeling that there may be a degree of protectionism at play but what do I know?

Indalo

 

[Jeremy]

Don't forget the momentary switch that needs to be depressed thats required for the throttle


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A spring loaded throttle complies with this requirement in the SI (for UK approved ebikes) so no need for the additional switch.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I am aware several brands have 250watt motor and throttle e.g. FreeGo, FastForward etc. When we first entered the market I researched this and was happy that 250 watt was legal even when accompanied with throttle in the UK. However let me get you something more concrete asap, ideally tomorrow.