Anyone else ordered Trek nano (Cytronex)?

hezzey

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 13, 2009
6
0
Battery life

I am in the market for an electric bike, I currently ride a standard road bike to and from work, a journey of fourteen miles round trip, and would only use pedal assist for about one mile up a hill which is killing my knee, I have contacted Cytronex two weeks ago about battery life on there cycle, but they have not responded, does any one have any idea how long this battery would last, as the cost is £195 and would not be cost affective if I had to buy a new one every year.
 

Encantador

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2008
89
6
As with any battery, it depends on how much you use it, bearing in mind you might use it more than you expect. If you do only need it for 1 mile each way per day, i would guess it would last a week before needing re-charging.
 

torrent99

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 14, 2008
395
36
Highgate, London
I am in the market for an electric bike, I currently ride a standard road bike to and from work, a journey of fourteen miles round trip, and would only use pedal assist for about one mile up a hill which is killing my knee, I have contacted Cytronex two weeks ago about battery life on there cycle, but they have not responded, does any one have any idea how long this battery would last, as the cost is £195 and would not be cost affective if I had to buy a new one every year.

The normal guideline figure for battery life is around 2-3 years, but if you REALLY are only using for 1 mile a day then you might easily get even longer!
You should charge it as often as possible (emptying Li-Ion batteries shortens their life), everyday charging would be good.
 

Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
NIMH last about 400 charges generally if well treated - Partial charges don't count as a full charge.

I think you'd find the Cytronex great for a 14 mile round trip. There is no way you would just use it for the odd hill though. Fast acceleration to 15 MPH is a big plus and far too tempting. Same goes for cycling into wind.

I also have very bad knees and this bike works for me. The battery size would be no issue for you. I think Cytronex are just about to come out with a kit. I'm not sure what they are doing as far as the 2009 Trek goes.
 

hezzey

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 13, 2009
6
0
charging cycles

Thanks you guys I really appreciate the information, I just found the no-hills.com web site, about battery information [Life approximately 250 charging cycles]does that mean if I charged it every day that’s all I would get, excuse my ignorance if I have said something stupid, but I really no northing about this subject .
 

Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
Thanks you guys I really appreciate the information, I just found the no-hills.com web site, about battery information [Life approximately 250 charging cycles]does that mean if I charged it every day that’s all I would get, excuse my ignorance if I have said something stupid, but I really no northing about this subject .
Hi Hezzy

If you needed a full charge every day maybe. It's best if the battery is recharged before draining it since this stresses the battery less and therefore extends its life. I generally recharge mine after 12 - 18 miles.
As an example if I recharge the battery after about 10-12 miles it only counts as about a half charge and the recharge (for the Cytronex battery) would take about 45 minutes (full charge is 1.5 hours).
I have no idea how accurate the 250 charges stated is. A lot depend on how you treat the battery and there are plenty of recommendations on the site especially from Flecc.

PS I reckon you'd probably get about 18 months to 2 years out of the battery given the mileage and what you've said already. It really depends a lot on the terrain and how you use the bike. If the battery is only going to get you up the odd hill, help out up a few slopes and headwinds and you're quite a strong cyclist you could probably expect to get more. Hard to say. I usually get 20 miles out of a full charge. Sometimes I get more. I have had 25 miles and I've seen 27 miles posted elsewhere.
 
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Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
Just to add that to my knowledge Cytronex haven't actually stated what the product offering and cost are going to be this year (Wild guess - Presteigne 9/10th May perhaps). They have said they are bringing an easy to fit kit out soon. Whether they will stick with the NIMH bottle battery or not they haven't stated.
I calculate my battery will have cost me about £60 per annum. My mileage is a less than yours and the battery cost was lower last September.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Thanks you guys I really appreciate the information, I just found the no-hills.com web site, about battery information [Life approximately 250 charging cycles]does that mean if I charged it every day that’s all I would get, excuse my ignorance if I have said something stupid, but I really no northing about this subject .
The concensus on NiMh batteries has changed over time and now settled at 400 charges. However, these charge numbers have no real meaning since a battery loses capacity over time and it's only when the range left is too short for someone that the battery is finished for that owner.

The NiMh capacity pattern is that it's nearly 100% achieved in the initial two or three conditioning runs, but then continues to rise fractionally up to about the 100 charge point. From then on it starts it's slow decline over time. For example, on a high quality Panasonic NiMh biike battery I had, the range once conditioned started at 20 miles, but at four years old had declined to only 8 miles. That was still useful to me for many runs, but for someone who had a 15 mile commute it would have been useless by around about two years old.

Because the Cytronex starts with a similar fairly short 20 mile range, the range might only be acceptable to some up to about 250 charges, but for those who had shorter journeys, it would still be useful well beyond that.

All this is only for NiMh, lithium batteries behave very differently.
.
 

Bikerbob

Pedelecer
May 10, 2007
215
0
Isle of Man
Mark advised me recently that he was hoping the kits would be available in late April but as we all know, these things often get delayed for reasons beyond the control of the supplier.
 

Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
From then on it starts it's slow decline over time. For example, on a high quality Panasonic NiMh biike battery I had, the range once conditioned started at 20 miles, but at four years old had declined to only 8 miles. That was still useful to me for many runs, but for someone who had a 15 mile commute it would have been useless by around about two years old.

Because the Cytronex starts with a similar fairly short 20 mile range, the range might only be acceptable to some up to about 250 charges, but for those who had shorter journeys, it would still be useful well beyond that.

All this is only for NiMh, lithium batteries behave very differently.
.
Even 8 miles would be of use to me so maybe with some care I can squeeze plenty of mileage out of it.
It took me quite a while to understand the difference between Lithium batteries and NIMH and all that after I bought my bike (thanks Flecc). I've come to appreciate that purchasing NIMH isn't a retrograde step and they do have advantages - fast recharge, lighter, stable, they don't lose the 22% capacity every year and they are cheaper (at the moment).
The Cytonex battery seems like a very good choice for round trips of 18 miles or less as long as you'r not expecting to ride the bike like a moped and you'r a reasonable cyclist. I think the costs per annum compare very favourably with Lithium battery production bike alternatives.
 

westrichard

Just Joined
Dec 8, 2009
2
0
Cytronex

I bought a Cytronex Genesis One bike last year and have a couple of comments to make about possible design faults and the Cytronex warranty. One comment concerns the Cytronex battety. A couple of times when offering the battery into the waterproof plug it popped (hydrogen gas?) and gave off a smell of ozone and then refused to work.

The magnets that propel the motor can and do shift out of place and when they do the rider is unable to use the power assist - downright dangerous on hills or trying to overtake in traffic.

If you buy a Cytronex, watch out for the warranty. Even though I've ridden my bike a small number of times in the last six months, Cytronex insist that the bike cannot be returned for a refund (I got to a high point of frustration that the bike didn't do as it is supposed to) and that they will look at the bike but it would be up to me to pay carriage costs. The returns policy seems to be purely arbitrary as if I had returned the bike within the first month but thrashed the hell out of it then Cytronex would have accepted it back. The mileage claims do not stack up because the claim is surely dependant on how long the power assist is used for and how many times it is used on any given journey. My advice is research the market before buying from Cytronex and only buy this expensive piece of kit if the warranty is unambiguous.
 

westrichard

Just Joined
Dec 8, 2009
2
0
Cytronex warning

I bought a Cytronex Genesis One bike last year and have a couple of comments to make about possible design faults and the Cytronex warranty. One comment concerns the Cytronex battety. A couple of times when offering the battery into the waterproof plug it popped (hydrogen gas?) and gave off a smell of ozone and then refused to work.

The magnets that propel the motor can and do shift out of place and when they do the rider is unable to use the power assist - downright dangerous on hills or trying to overtake in traffic.

If you buy a Cytronex, watch out for the warranty. Even though I've ridden my bike a small number of times in the last six months, Cytronex insist that the bike cannot be returned for a refund (I got to a high point of frustration that the bike didn't do as it is supposed to) and that they will look at the bike but it would be up to me to pay carriage costs. The returns policy seems to be purely arbitrary as if I had returned the bike within the first month but thrashed the hell out of it then Cytronex would have accepted it back. The mileage claims do not stack up because the claim is surely dependant on how long the power assist is used for and how many times it is used on any given journey. My advice is research the market before buying from Cytronex and only buy this expensive piece of kit if the warranty is unambiguous.
 

felix

Pedelecer
Mar 16, 2008
37
7
Hi Westrichard,

sorry to hear about your problems.

I have one of the earlier Cytronex Trek bikes and have been using it regularly since May 2008. I have not experienced any trouble to date and regard it as one of my best buys ever.

Regarding the "pop" when you connect the battery, this is normal, a small spark occurs as the controller capacitors charge.

If the bike then doesn't run it sounds like there is a bad connection. Maybe the battery/plug pins have become contaminated, fairly easy to fix.

I don't think it is the motor magnets shifting out of place causing loss of power assist, its more likely to be related to the above.

If it does turn out to be a duff motor, you could just send the front wheel back, not the whole bike!

Mark at Cytronex is a fair man and I'm sure he will do his best to get you back on the road

Hope this helps,

mike :)
 
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Xcytronex

Pedelecer
Jul 23, 2009
139
0
I bought a Cytronex Genesis One bike last year and have a couple of comments to make about possible design faults and the Cytronex warranty. One comment concerns the Cytronex battety. A couple of times when offering the battery into the waterproof plug it popped (hydrogen gas?) and gave off a smell of ozone and then refused to work.

The magnets that propel the motor can and do shift out of place and when they do the rider is unable to use the power assist - downright dangerous on hills or trying to overtake in traffic.

If you buy a Cytronex, watch out for the warranty. Even though I've ridden my bike a small number of times in the last six months, Cytronex insist that the bike cannot be returned for a refund (I got to a high point of frustration that the bike didn't do as it is supposed to) and that they will look at the bike but it would be up to me to pay carriage costs. The returns policy seems to be purely arbitrary as if I had returned the bike within the first month but thrashed the hell out of it then Cytronex would have accepted it back. The mileage claims do not stack up because the claim is surely dependant on how long the power assist is used for and how many times it is used on any given journey. My advice is research the market before buying from Cytronex and only buy this expensive piece of kit if the warranty is unambiguous.
I 'm not sure about the battery 'problem' -the noise /ozone was never noticeable on my Cytronex Trek. If you find your motor cutting out intermittently this could be the beginings of controller faliure .Possibly your brake cutouts need fine tuning.Your best bet is to discuss the problem with Mark in as rational a manner as possible-I do realise this can be difficult as you have parted with hard earned cash-and feel you should have v.f.m.
Courier costs are expensive and sending bikes back to Cytronex [Winchester] can be problematical unless you are fairly local.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
I have nearly 1800 miles on my second hand Cytronex Trek 7300, one of the first. It still rund really well. I also get a little pop as I plug the battery in, but I think the explanation above explains that. Its not gas, more likely an electrical arcing smell.

Your second comment does not really make much sense are you talking about the pedelec ? Not sure if the new Cytronex have pedelec fitted though. I doubt the magnets in the motor are moving or it would be knackered all the time. What you may be hearing and mistaking is the rollers which do rattle slightly on all Tongxins. Grasp the wheel and rock it back and forward and you will hear them. Perfectly normal. Its not the magnets moving.

Distance purchasing is always a problem. Perhaps you can come to some agreement with them if you take it there and drop it off, they seem like a good bunch :confused:

Regards

Jerry
 
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john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
0
Manchester
The magnets that propel the motor can and do shift out of place and when they do the rider is unable to use the power assist - downright dangerous on hills or trying to overtake in traffic.
If the magnets come loose then the motor will not work until it is repaired or replaced. Have you experienced this?
 

john

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2007
531
0
Manchester
What you may be hearing and mistaking is the rollers which do rattle slightly on all Tongxins. Grasp the wheel and rock it back and forward and you will hear them. Perfectly normal. Its not the magnets moving.
Actually, that is the freewheel you are hearing, not the rollers which are a very tight fit.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
I would say that the warranty from Cytronex is up there with the best in the business. I have had my problems and repairs have been made after the one year warranty has expired. I don't think you are being reasonable to expect a refund after 6 months however little it has been used.

I also think you need to be clearer in your description of what is wrong - what are your symptom, is it intermittent etc? It is highly unlikely that the magnets will have come adrift within the Tongxin motor - certainly this is not a known problem now they are using the sensorless controller (the hall sensors or magnets could come adrift in the older versions). The weakest link in the system, mechanically, is the freewheel but you know when this fails as it will either lose drive or become very noisy. A failed motor can take the controller out but again you will get no drive.

The most likely reason for the power loss is the brake switch(es) which are probably magnetic on your bike and need adjustment (the old version had switches in the brake lever than can stick). The other area could be the pedelec sensor that has moved away from the magnets on the crank - these are the areas I would check with Mark's help. The wiring is very robust and waterproof. For example the battery connector is supposed to be self cleaning military grade so shouldn't cause problems.
 
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Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
Your second comment does not really make much sense are you talking about the pedelec ? Not sure if the new Cytronex have pedelec fitted though. I doubt the magnets in the motor are moving or it would be knackered all the time. What you may be hearing and mistaking is the rollers which do rattle slightly on all Tongxins. Grasp the wheel and rock it back and forward and you will hear them. Perfectly normal. Its not the magnets moving.
:confused:

Regards

Jerry
Yes the 2009 models are pedelec. You have to pedal to get assistance. The older Cytronex Treks you don't. Doesn't make much difference though.

Never noticed the popping.

Just to had my 2 pennies. I've done 18 months and no complaints. I live in the West Midlands so taking the bike would be a bit of a pain. It's about a 3 hour round trip and some shopping in Winchester at worst.
I've had a couple of problems and one of them was cosmetic. Neither of them has been fault of the bike or the design. Mark at Cytronex has been extremely helpful in helping me to resolve them quickly without having to go down to Winchester.

Westrichard, good luck getting your bike problem resolved asap.:)
 
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