£245 Argos Folder Improvements - complete story

[saneagle]

I started this thread again to give a recap and conclusion, since the last one got diluted by crap before I'd got half-way throgh, which makes it tedious for people, who are interested in the story and want to do similar.
This is a series of improvement I made to a £245 Argos E-move folding bike. The reasons for doing it are:
1. Gearing much too low
2. Brakes are crap
3. Nowhere near enough power for a 90kg rider to get up hills (only 8A max compared with most ebikes 15A)
4. Control system is very bad. The power is difficult to control and needs to be at the max all the time, anyway.
Pictures of the original bike are in the review thread.

1. Gearing
The Problem is that top gear has 14T and the chainwheel isn't big enough to pedal comfortably at 15 mph. I replaced the standard Freewheel with A DNP 7-speed with 11T top gear. The result is much more comfortable pedalling I'm missing bottom gear, but that was much too low anyway, and with the higher power I now have, you wouldn't need the bottom three gears. I didn't have to make any adjustment to the shifters or derailleur. They worked exactly as before for the upper 4 gears, which is all you need to use.



2. Brakes
Cable disc brakes are always a bit meh. These ones are noisy as well, and the back caliper was wrongly positioned so that the pads were only about 60% on the disc. I replaced them with these cable hydraulic brakes from Aliexpress, which are a lot better. Not as good as ones with hydraulic levers - about half-way between, though I have to say that they're not fully run in, and the back brake is still not fully on the disc. They're a direct replacement, though you need to solve the positioning at the same time, which means using a lower adapter or grind about 3mm off the existing one. I haven't done that yet.

ZOOM XTECH HB100 MTB Hydraulic Disc Calipers Front and Rear Rotor G3 160/180MM MT200 M315 160mm Rotor Hydraulic Brakes for Bikes - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

vi.aliexpress.com

 

[saneagle]

4 and 5. Power and Control System
I killed two birds with one stone by replacing the controller with a 15A KT sine wave one with LCD4. There was quite a lot of work in that, as I had to unthread the original wiring through the frame and thread through the new stuff. I put a loop in a gear cable to use as a puller, which worked very well.



I chucked the controller, LED display, pedal sensorand brakes. I could've kept the original levers, but I had a pair of Tektro ones with switches, one of which had a wire that could run all the way to the controller, otherwise, I'd have to cut the connectors off the old ones and solder on an extension wire.

First, unsolder the battery connector from the receiver and solder on two tails with bullet connectors to match the controller. The remaining connector is for the light on the back of the battery. I could have unsoldered it and connected some wires to the light connector on the controller, but I couldn't be bothered.



Next, cut off the controller's motor connectors and solder on a motor lead the right length. You can just see the heatshrink over the joins in this photo:



Everything just fits in the compartment, though I found out the reason for all the bunched up cables. It's difficult to get the lid on the compartment when everything is in place. Originally, they had the wires so long that you could put the lid on with the battery receiver out of the rack. There is just enough room to get the lid on with the battery in place, but I can't get it fully on because it has a rather awkward web on it. I will grind that off, then it should fit OK. It's not really necessary.
I fitted a KT V12 pedal sensor because it already had the right connector, and it only took two minutes to fit. The original one had a very short lead, so, for convenience, I'd have to remove it anywat to solder on an extension lead.

 

[saneagle]

Testing
I rode the bike to the shops today and came back with about 6kg of stuff. There's one steep uphill in each direction. Everything worked as I'd hoped. It's comfortable to pedal at 15 mph in top gear. The bottom gears are now unnecessary because of the power from the motor. I set the power to 12A, which was enough to get up the hills, helped by the increased torque from the 20" wheels compared with 26" or bigger wheels. There's no sign of sag from the battery, so I have the option to increase the current to 15A, which would give double the original power. The brakes are a big step up. There are some questions about their longevity, so I think it would be better to replace with normal hydraulic brakes, though if you want a quick solution for your bike with cable disc brakes, they're a pretty good solution for £30.

Conclusion
Costs were £25 for the controller, £20 for the LCD4, £30 for the brakes and £20 for the freewheel, which brings the total to £335 for a folder that's a little on the heavy side, but apart from that, it rides very well. Definitely a good upgrade for £95.

You can now pedal as hard or easy as you want instead of the uncontrolled surge on each level before.

The throttle is very useful either to work independently or, if you want to be fully legal, as a boost control to give instant max power on any power level selected rather than pushing the buttons to go up and down through the levels each time you come to a roundabout a short hill.

The brakes are everything you'd hope for on a bike like that - much more controllable than before.

Finally, I haven't yet got the cover on the controller compartment. I will do that in the next couple of days. I'm pretty sure it will fit after removing the web thing on it, otherwise, if you want to do the same on this or a similar bike, it might be easier to leave all the wires long, like before, then cable tie them in a bunch underneath.

 

[Ghost1951]

Excellent news and nice to see the photos of what you have done. I think the first mod I might do is to get some brake calipers like yours. I have never seen a system like that with hydraulic actuators and cable control wires.

On a wet day, my brakes howl like I don't know what. Maybe you could let us know that yours doesn't make that kind of noise in damp weather with the new brake mechanism. I have never been sure whether it was caused by the brake pads and mechanism, or by the disk. Even on a foggy day mine makes a noise like whale-song every time I touch the levers.

My second mod would be to put on a different freewheel. I feel a bit idiotic with my legs flying in a blur while progressing at a stately pace. Even though I may be far from 'cool', I don't enjoy making myself look ridiculous with flailing legs at 15 miles an hour.

I know the controller was very unsatisfactory for you, but I am less bothered by that than the things I mentioned above, so I am less likely to do anything about changing it right now. It was interesting to see how you went about it though and to get clear warning of snags and issues.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to document how you made the changes. Well worth reading it.

By the end of my ride this afternoon, I will have done 200 miles. I am at 188 right now and still loving the bargain - with all its foibles. I have sent for a cheap wired odometer so I don't have to measure all my routes and log them to keep track of mileage. It should come by mid week, I think.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I replaced the standard Freewheel with A DNP 7-speed with 11T top gear. The result is much more comfortable pedalling I'm missing bottom gear, but that was much too low anyway,

Is it a six speed derailleur ? That's what I did on mine ( on your advice). Works fine so far, didn't even need to re-index the gears (although I've seen some comments questioning how long the DNP freewheel lasts - if it only lasts 2000-3000 miles I'll just replace it). Best upgrade ever - can comfortably pedal up to around 20 mph with that gearing. Don't need bottom gear with the motor assist

 

[saneagle]

Is it a six speed derailleur ? That's what I did on mine ( on your advice). Works fine so far, didn't even need to re-index the gears (although I've seen some comments questioning how long the DNP freewheel lasts - if it only lasts 2000-3000 miles I'll just replace it). Best upgrade ever - can comfortably pedal up to around 20 mph with that gearing. Don't need bottom gear with the motor assist

Yes, 6 speed derailleur. It's normally the freewheel that jams, which you can avoid by feeding copious amounts of 3-in One oil.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

2. Brakes
.... I replaced them with these cable hydraulic brakes from Aliexpress, which are a lot better. Not as good as ones with hydraulic levers - about half-way between, though I have to say that they're not fully run in, and the back brake is still not fully on the disc.

So I have replaced cable disc brakes with hydraulic (£30 for front and back mt200s on AliExpress) on a number of occasions (though never on a folder) and even with my fairly basic skills in bike mechanics, it was a 10 minute job everything just fitted. Is there some complication with fitting hydraulic brakes to that folder that made you choose cable hydraulic ?

 

[esuark]

questioning how long the DNP freewheel lasts

9,830 miles so far with mine (hub motor) by feeding copious amounts of 3-in One oil à la saneagle.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

9,830 miles so far with mine (hub motor) by feeding copious amounts of 3-in One oil à la saneagle.

Wow that is impressive, any more information on how you achieved that, do you ride with assistance on all the time, is the hub motor powerful? Are you relatively light etc.

 

[saneagle]

So I have replaced cable disc brakes with hydraulic (£30 for front and back mt200s on AliExpress) on a number of occasions (though never on a folder) and even with my fairly basic skills in bike mechanics, it was a 10 minute job everything just fitted. Is there some complication with fitting hydraulic brakes to that folder that made you choose cable hydraulic ?

I just wanted to see if those cable hydraulics were any good, because I never tried them before. They're a good solution for anybody that has enclosed cables or doesn't want to mess about with adding switches to regular hydraulics or pulling the grips off the handlebars to get the levers on. They're just quick and easy; however, when you know what you're doing, normal hydraulics with switches can be fitted just as quick, and they can be had from Aliexpress for only £10 more. I would rather fit them any time.

 

[thelarkbox]

Thanks for the details .. Its softened the blow of missing out on the 'deal' after prevaricating a tad too long..
( and i dont need another bike...)
Just wondering however if a larger chainring would have been a solution to the gear ratio issue?

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the details .. Its softened the blow of missing out on the 'deal' after prevaricating a tad too long..
( and i dont need another bike...)
Just wondering however if a larger chainring would have been a solution to the gear ratio issue?

A larger chainring works too, but it raises the gearing on all gears, which isn't a good thing on some bikes; however, this one has very low gearing, so it would have been a good solution. I have some larger chainwheels, but I really wanted one with the trouser guard on it, which none of them have.

 

[esuark]

Wow that is impressive, any more information on how you achieved that, do you ride with assistance on all the time, is the hub motor powerful? Are you relatively light etc.

Yes some assistance on all the time as am 73 now and it gets me back to where I was about 15 years ago. But I rarely use the higher assist levels and never the highest even up the 17% hill on my return home. All leisure miles.
Hub is a Woosh Bafang SWX02 code 16? 48v. Bought Nov 2019? (I think) it's why I'm trying to get to 10,000 miles by this Nov weather permitting.
Clutch was playing up at about 6000 miles so fitted a new one and took the opportunity then to fit a KT controller which is much preferred. The original battery will still do 40+ miles. The one thing I look after most.
Kit has been fitted to two bikes so far, the second bike just to be able to have discs as the other was caliper brakes only and the rear rim was wearing. So a £70.00 bike with a suitable disc frame was bought and all the best parts swapped.
I was nearly 14st but so far by this morning have got down to 11st 5lb in the last 5 months . Dietary changes and cutting out the crap, biscuits!
A new chain was jumping the most used top cogs so I change them out with new ZTTO cassette cogs, they're a straight fit.

 

[cyclebuddy]

...They're a good solution for anybody that has enclosed cables or doesn't want to mess about with adding switches to regular hydraulics or pulling the grips off the handlebars to get the levers on. They're just quick and easy...

Agree 100% when I fitted them to my Fiido folder a year or so ago* now... brake cable routed through frame with an awkward fold mech, and of course brake switches made it too much of a faff.

Notice you've got some decent Clarks rotors on there too... I'm guessing they weren't standard?

*EDIT: Crikey, doesn't time fly... it's almost 3 years ago I fitted the HB100's here. I can at least report they're still working well with no mishaps.

 

[saneagle]

Agree 100% when I fitted them to my Fiido folder a year or so ago* now... brake cable routed through frame with an awkward fold mech, and of course brake switches made it too much of a faff.

Notice you've got some decent Clarks rotors on there too... I'm guessing they weren't standard?

*EDIT: Crikey, doesn't time fly... it's almost 3 years ago I fitted the HB100's here. I can at least report they're still working well with no mishaps.

Rotors are original fitment

 

[Peter.Bridge]

A larger chainring works too, but it raises the gearing on all gears, which isn't a good thing on some bikes; however, this one has very low gearing, so it would have been a good solution. I have some larger chainwheels, but I really wanted one with the trouser guard on it, which none of them have.

So moving from the standard freewheel smallest cog (14t) to a DNP 11t cog is a 27% increase in gearing - potentially you are going to need a massive chainwheel on a folder (which usually have big chainwheels to start with) to get that sort of increase.

 

[saneagle]

So moving from the standard freewheel smallest cog (14t) to a DNP 11t cog is a 27% increase in gearing - potentially you are going to need a massive chainwheel on a folder (which usually have big chainwheels to start with) to get that sort of increase.

The power before the modifications was very weak, so it needed the low gearing to support the motor. The downside was that 12 mph was a practical top speed. On a steepish hill, I had to use the low gears. When the power was increased to a normal level, the gearing was too low throughout the range. A 25% increase would be about right, so something like a 48T chainwheel would have done it, and a new chain would be required, so approximately double the cost of just fitting the freewheel. On a bike like this, you only need about 4 gears because of the high torque from the small wheels, so the DNP freewheel works pretty well. If I had received the bike as it is now, I wouldn’t be thinking about changing the gearing.

 

[Ghost1951]

Re very poor cable brakes on original bike -

Not being as refined as Saneagle, i tolerated the brakes as supplied on the bike for 210 miles and noted a new shushing sound lately. I took off the rear caliper and spun up the wheel and it was gone, so i removed the pads and found this huge step in the friction material, caused by really terrible fitting that Saneagle had already warned me had affected his original bike.


There were two 2mm washers under the caliper between it and the mounting plate and these guarantee that much of the friction pad does not contact the disk. I still think more could be done to make more pad contact the disk, but it would involve filing the mount, or the caliper. Saneagle referred to this himself above.

I rubbed down the pad to remove the step and flatten it, and reassembled the caliper with much more of the pad working against the disk.

Edit:

Because of the horrible design of brakes of this low quality, only one of the pads had the deep step. Only the pad that is pushed by the actuator is really doing any significant work. The only way the brake would work decently would be if the caliper was floating and could move, so both pads were pressing in on the disk.

I think soon i will be changing the brakes as shown here in the thread.

 

[chris_n]

Because of the horrible design of brakes of this low quality, only one of the pads had the deep step. Only the pad that is pushed by the actuator is really doing any significant work. The only way the brake would work decently would be if the caliper was floating and could move, so both pads were pressing in.

I think soon i will be changing the brakes as shown here in the thread.

That is the way most (all?) cable operated disc brakes work, if you don't adjust the inside pad after every few brake applications they don't work properly. The whole system is crazy relying on flexing of the brake rotor, no wonder they get noisy.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

That is the way most (all?) cable operated disc brakes work, if you don't adjust the inside pad after every few brake applications they don't work properly. The whole system is crazy relying on flexing of the brake rotor, no wonder they get noisy.

You do get dual piston mechanical disc brake calipers too but they definitely seem in the minority and I'm guessing it was more a deluxe version in the early days of disc brakes and likely now isn't really available as hydraulic is more the deluxe version nowadays. I think the mechanical disc brakes on my Saracen Pylon are dual piston and those zoom hybrid hydraulic/mechanical disc brakes that saneagle fitted are dual piston too.

Single piston can work fine though but everything has to be setup so well. I'm unsure how different rotor sizes effect braking performance with these but would expect that to be a factor. Maybe its easier to bend a larger rotor out of true with a single piston caliper or maybe the opposite is true. I have used a dual piston mechanical disc caliper in the past with a 203mm rotor and braking performance was brilliant I thought and they were super easy to service and maintain.