£245 Argos Folder Improvements - complete story

[saneagle]

Alex and Bill buy new stems and being an engineer Bill lightens his. After a couple of months of daily rides Bill's twin Ben is convinced and buys the same stem and does the identical mod. Another two months go by and Ben face plants when his stem snaps only to be told "You must have screwed up your mod, ours are rock solid". What's really happened is that Ben's identical stem had a 40% chance of snapping and has done, while Bill's stem used twice as long had a 2 in 3 chance but hasn't. The mod increased the original failure rate of 0.0001 per ride 80 fold but Bill's stem continues to perform the same as Alex's, building up confidence, and there remains a 5% chance he'll still be singing its praises a year later (1-(1-P)^n).

Most of us can't test for go/no-go failures at a meaningful scale and what testing we can do doesn't guarantee repeatability, it mainly reveals any gross weakness. Batteries too have a brittle (exponential) failure mode with a potentially nasty outcome that makes this infeasible testing essential. So the take home for the most part has to be Don't abuse your battery.

Equally it's obvious battery safety isn't keeping up with modern cells and that embedding today's designs into standards to meet commercial ends won't help *. Threads like this, the folk who admin and sponsor the forum despite some iffy posts, the parts access and the enquiring minds to push the limits occasionally, are all essential - trace how mobiles and the internet got here and you can see why. Oops, tangent.

I'm sure you're right about the reason for the weak controller and I get as confident as the next guy in the stuff I build. However if a mod could carry this type of unquantifiable risk to others the engineer in me can't properly refute that, and the responsible thing is to keep any risk to myself regardless of how I feel, hence "Remain cautious with it". I hope you'll do loads more like this but come to see the battery as a special case for most mortals.

(*) At least 18% of ebike fires in 2023 were in manufactured ebikes according to Govt analysis.

That's complete rubbish. When has anybody's stem ever broken without crashing first. Anyway, things like that don't have a 40% chance of failure.

 

[AntonyC]

That's an interesting statistic what is the source for this, that's quite interesting that 82% of ebike fires are from ebike kits?

Kit 'conversions' make up 46% and the rest could be either. They're improving the reporting form which means figures aren't directly comparable between years. The link was the coloured bit in the footnote.

e-bike – conversion	74
e-bike – unknown build	58
e-bike – manufactured	29

I very much doubt that many of those came from bikes with Bosch / Yamaha / Shimano etc systems which have higher level communications between the battery and charger / motor than a lot of the cheaper options.

Is there more info about that, comms with the controller sounds a really good idea? I've only come across comms in relation to chargers, where it lets you choose which side of the plug to locate hardware but AFAIK the functions stay much the same, even for profile charging. I think having comms can be cheaper or it can be cheapskate resulting in a less safe battery. If you mean CAN-bus it does the same job as UART.

@saneagle: of course the figures are boosted (but consistent) to show how it works. The stem is drilled remember and we can't tell if it's 40% now nor say that it isn't, that is the point. Let's call it a day.

 

[saneagle]

@saneagle: of course the figures are boosted (but consistent) to show how it works. The stem is drilled remember and we can't tell if it's 40% now nor say that it isn't, that is the point. Let's call it a day.

The point is that stems don't break. You've invented something that doesn't happen then tried to extrapolate it to hub motors and 30 cell batteries that also don't break when you run them at 12A.

 

[Ghost1951]

Ordered a set of those Xtech cable operated hydraulic caliper brakes yesterday. I had been trying to resurrect my old AliExpress account, on and off for a fortnight. The card loaded on it had expired in the winter and when I repeatedly tried to update it, it would not accept a new card. The help features on the site didn't work, so eventually, I deleted the account, waited 24 hours and made a new one with the same email, same default address and same card. Worked perfectly, so in due course, my brakes will hopefully stop howling when damp, and work better.

I will post an update when they come. It should be a ten minute job to transform the braking.

 

[saneagle]

Ordered a set of those Xtech cable operated hydraulic caliper brakes yesterday. I had been trying to resurrect my old AliExpress account, on and off for a fortnight. The card loaded on it had expired in the winter and when I repeatedly tried to update it, it would not accept a new card. The help features on the site didn't work, so eventually, I deleted the account, waited 24 hours and made a new one with the same email, same default address and same card. Worked perfectly, so in due course, my brakes will hopefully stop howling when damp, and work better.

I will post an update when they come. It should be a ten minute job to transform the braking.

You should get the next size down caliper adapter too. The one that comes with them is the same size as the OEM one, which is too high. It will also give you the chance to use the alignment washers for perfect alignment.

 

[Ghost1951]

You should get the next size down caliper adapter too. The one that comes with them is the same size as the OEM one, which is too high. It will also give you the chance to use the alignment washers for perfect alignment.

I found some complaints about the Xtech brakes failing. Seems sometimes they need the oil to be replaced. This youtube shows how to go about it.

If this is a thread diversion just say and I will delete it.

 

[saneagle]

If this is a thread diversion just say and I will delete it.

I've finished my story, so you can post whatever you like, but your post is about improvements to the bike, so is on topic anyway. I got a bit annoyed in the other thread because people started adding pages of irrelevant drivel when I was only halfway through, which makes it really tedious for people interested in reading the story.

 

[Ghost1951]

I've finished my story, so you can post whatever you like, but your post is about improvements to the bike, so is on topic anyway. I got a bit annoyed in the other thread because people started adding pages of irrelevant drivel when I was only halfway through, which makes it really tedious for people interested in reading the story.

I am unsure as to which mounting adaptor for the HB100 I should order. I might as well do the job properly.

By the way - I also think my cheapy wired odometer/speedometer is an improvement. It works very well and was so cheap it's mad not to have one. £4.44!

Pardon our interruption...

I measured the circumference of the wheel exactly by sticking a small paper label on the sidewall of the front tyre, drawing a mark on it with a pen and rolling the wheel indoors on a laminate floor until the mark was pointing exactly down. Then I stuck another paper label (or a bit of one) onto the laminate and drawing a mark exactly beside the one on the wheel, then I rolled the bike one exact wheel revolution, and stuck another bit of a label to the floor and made a pen mark opposite the wheel mark. It is very easy to measure the circumference with a tape. In this case the wheel was exactly 1540 mm in circumference. Programmed that into the odometer with the two buttons and I now have a very accurate speedo and odometer.

Now done 256 miles on it. No regrets. Very good buy and getting some good aerobic exercise on the uphill bits which pleases the G/f.

 

[saneagle]

I am unsure as to which mounting adaptor for the HB100 I should order. I might as well do the job properly.

By the way - I also think my cheapy wired odometer/speedometer is an improvement. It works very well and was so cheap it's mad not to have one. £4.44!

Pardon our interruption...

I measured the circumference of the wheel exactly by sticking a small paper label on the sidewall of the front tyre, drawing a mark on it with a pen and rolling the wheel indoors on a laminate floor until the mark was pointing exactly down. Then I stuck another paper label (or a bit of one) onto the laminate and drawing a mark exactly beside the one on the wheel, then I rolled the bike one exact wheel revolution, and stuck another bit of a label to the floor and made a pen mark opposite the wheel mark. It is very easy to measure the circumference with a tape. In this case the wheel was exactly 1540 mm in circumference. Programmed that into the odometer with the two buttons and I now have a very accurate speedo and odometer.

Remove the adapter and look underneath it. Hopefully, it'll have the size written on it. Mine do. I've just checked mine. both discs are 160mm. The front adapter says F-160, meaning front 160mm. It lines up perfectly. The back one says 180F 140R and is too high. I think you get the same sizes with the hydraulic calipers, which means you'll have two 140Rs, so you'll probably be OK if you put the 160F 140R on the back. I didn't realise that the adapters were different, so I didn't change them. I'll swap the back one tomorrow and let you know if it's OK.

 

[saneagle]

I am unsure as to which mounting adaptor for the HB100 I should order. I might as well do the job properly.

By the way - I also think my cheapy wired odometer/speedometer is an improvement. It works very well and was so cheap it's mad not to have one. £4.44!

Pardon our interruption...

I measured the circumference of the wheel exactly by sticking a small paper label on the sidewall of the front tyre, drawing a mark on it with a pen and rolling the wheel indoors on a laminate floor until the mark was pointing exactly down. Then I stuck another paper label (or a bit of one) onto the laminate and drawing a mark exactly beside the one on the wheel, then I rolled the bike one exact wheel revolution, and stuck another bit of a label to the floor and made a pen mark opposite the wheel mark. It is very easy to measure the circumference with a tape. In this case the wheel was exactly 1540 mm in circumference. Programmed that into the odometer with the two buttons and I now have a very accurate speedo and odometer.

Now done 256 miles on it. No regrets. Very good buy and getting some good aerobic exercise on the uphill bits which pleases the G/f.

I've finally sorted mine. With each pair of calipers, there are two sizes of adapter: 180F 160R and 160F 140R. I now have the 160F 140R on both wheels and I have correct alignment, which took quite a bit of experimentation. Bolting the caliper direct to the adapter had it too low, and using the full set of alignment washers put it too high. In the end, I settled for a single spherucal washer between the caliper and adapter, as you can see in the photo.

To get at the adapter, you have to remove the screw from the mudguard stay amd loosen the screw that adjusts the rack stay so that you can move it back a couple of mm to get access to the front adapter screw. I also needed a single 6mm washer between the adapter and the frme in both places to bring the caliper in the middle of the adapter. Without that, it was right up against one side and bending the disc when I operated the brake.

I can now see that I have the spherical washer the wrong way up, but it probably doesn't do anything anyway. Also, I thing the adapter is back to front. It's direction wasn't marked, but normally the high end goes to the front. I had it like that during my experimentations before I started messing with the washers, and it was too high, so I turned it around to make the caliper lower, but still not enough. After sorting the washers, I couldn't be bothered to change it around.

 

[Ghost1951]

Great. It looks like I will have all the fittings that I will need and I will be able to sort it out when the package arrives. Thanks for working it out. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[matthewslack]

I am unsure as to which mounting adaptor for the HB100 I should order. I might as well do the job properly.

By the way - I also think my cheapy wired odometer/speedometer is an improvement. It works very well and was so cheap it's mad not to have one. £4.44!

Pardon our interruption...

I measured the circumference of the wheel exactly by sticking a small paper label on the sidewall of the front tyre, drawing a mark on it with a pen and rolling the wheel indoors on a laminate floor until the mark was pointing exactly down. Then I stuck another paper label (or a bit of one) onto the laminate and drawing a mark exactly beside the one on the wheel, then I rolled the bike one exact wheel revolution, and stuck another bit of a label to the floor and made a pen mark opposite the wheel mark. It is very easy to measure the circumference with a tape. In this case the wheel was exactly 1540 mm in circumference. Programmed that into the odometer with the two buttons and I now have a very accurate speedo and odometer.

Now done 256 miles on it. No regrets. Very good buy and getting some good aerobic exercise on the uphill bits which pleases the G/f.

Did you roll your wheel with normal riding load applied? Could be a few mm of radius error!

 

[Ghost1951]

Did you roll your wheel with normal riding load applied? Could be a few mm of radius error!

No. I didn't allow for tyre compression either.

How heavy do you think I am?

I really only wanted to have a record of how far I was going on the bike, and was vaguely curious about what speed the PAS2 of 3 cut off at. This data does not need to be accurate to the third decimal point...

I know you were joking.

 

[thelarkbox]

By the way - I also think my cheapy wired odometer/speedometer is an improvement. It works very well and was so cheap it's mad not to have one. £4.44!

Pardon our interruption...

Think i paid a few quid more about 20-25 yrs ago for mine, And its still going strong even after loosing the battery enclosure back and replacing it with a bit of folded hdpe milk carton to wedge the coin cell in place.

If you go ali express they are sub £1 with free pnp..

fww I chalk the tyre and roll the bike to measure the circumference, close enough for me..

 

[saneagle]

Think i paid a few quid more about 20-25 yrs ago for mine, And its still going strong even after loosing the battery enclosure back and replacing it with a bit of folded hdpe milk carton to wedge the coin cell in place.

If you go ali express they are sub £1 with free pnp..

fww I chalk the tyre and roll the bike to measure the circumference, close enough for me..

You guys make things so complicated. Your phone has GPS in it. Do a ride and compare the difference in distance, and/or ride at a constant speed and see the difference.

 

[Ghost1951]

You guys make things so complicated. Your phone has GPS in it. Do a ride and compare the difference in distance, and/or ride at a constant speed and see the difference.

Wouldn't that be FAR more complicated?

 

[saneagle]

Wouldn't that be FAR more complicated?

What, look at your phone and bike computer before you go for a ride and look at them again when you get back? Don't you do that anyway?

 

[thelarkbox]

What dig out a fone buy a sim card spend half an hour working out how to use it then download the apps you need giving them permission to overtake your phone or they wont install.. And where was i going??

 

[Ghost1951]

What, look at your phone and bike computer before you go for a ride and look at them again when you get back? Don't you do that anyway?

No.

I get on the bike and go out for a ride.
I want my riding to be an uncomplicated pleasure - which it generally is.

Besides - messing about with my telephone would not easily tell me the mileage covered if I was estimating battery consumption, nor would it tell me my speed as I ride along. I am quite sure that I could make it do those things, if I could be bothered to mess about, but putting a very cheap handlebar device on the bike and fastening a signal wire to the handlebar post and fork with a few cable ties is very easy and a one off five minute job.

I thought it would be handy to have an odometer that would clock up the miles I rode and also showed me at what speed the different PAS levels operated at. The device was I thought very cheap on ebay, though Larkbox has pointed out I could have got it for about a quid on Ali Express rather than four pounds and a few pennies.

 

[thelarkbox]

Fwiw mine cost circa £20 and caused a row with the then g/f as that should have been spent on her that evening..

And i have a LONG and dire history with mobile phones and an unusual aversion- my problem, but my first phone almost ended me up in bankruptcy with a 15k debt i was unaware of in 89.....