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Yes, I see that point flecc. It does look to me as though the Spanish government are pushing Catalans that way rather than negotiating tho. The Catalans should not have called their referendum binding. It should have been an exploratory referendum to gauge wether sovereignty was wanted...Making...

Its not my decision to make. Personally could not care less wether Catalonia is in Spain or not...Its the choice of the Catalans. Just as its the choice of the Scottish to be in UK or not...and the Irish...and Welsh. Why are you so adamant to remove the choice from people having control of...

All fair points Peterl..having law on your side does not always equate to having right... Spain had the law on its side when GC fired rubber bullets into crowds, it had the law on its side when it dragged people out of voting booths, yet the Catalans didn't for trying to express a common goal...

But you are both missing the point..Catalan is only part of Spain because you see it as such. The Catalans ( well apparently some of them) do not see it that way, which is exactly the point of a Catalan referendum. To find out the %age of people in Caralan who see their country as not part of...

All in your opinion... Answer this Flecc when Jamaica voted to request independence should UK voters also been consulted prior to its granting ? Ofcourse not. You are then making a value judgement on Catalans present situation, implying they do not have a right to self determination when...

No, I,m saying they should be allowed a referendum to see if majority desire self rule and then work out a way of achieving it with as little ill effect to all concerned as possible . ( assuming they did vote yes) Suggesting the whole of Spain should be involved to decide wether Catalans want...

Yes , I think I,ve quoted same phrase in past but its irrelevant. You are suggesting Spain impose their version of democracy on Catalan. I,m saying let the Catalans decide which version they operate under. Yes, its simplistic and difficult to achieve but nevertheless it should be a goal...

No ,its what your version of democracy is. We both know full well Catalan would not get independence in a Spanish ( note Spanish) wide vote. What right have you, or any one else, to impose your version of democracy on another Country or group. Its for that group or country to determine what...

No,no,no..Its the decision of the Catalans...nobody else's. Like I said earlier we,ll just have to agree to disagree. Why should you or I have a say in what Scots wish to do. None of my business...or yours..I wouldn't want Scots to gain independence but its their decision. If it damages rest...

By all means give up Danidl but as usual you assume others are misinformed or missing point when actually its you doing so. First of all your assumption colonies did not have representation is factually wrong.( in British ones) Jamaica had universal suffrage from 1944 and one of main reasons...

Its only shared when all parties wish to share. Wether a country arrives at independence post imperialism , colonisation or shared constitution is irrelevant. Its independence, a countries' past should have nothing to do with its desires for the future. If all countries around world had had same...

If your house fills prerequisites,ie funding, representation,( voting) taxation, infrastructure,education, health care, social care etc etc why should anybody be able to stop you ??Doesn't seem terribly enlightened for you Danidl...to assume its fine for an individual to be controlled by...

But those societies negotiating and reaching mutually beneficial agreements do not have to belong to same country. I think your view of it all is very 19th century, where adjoining countries are inevitably in dispute. Why can't any region/ City operate as its own soveriegn entity ??? ( If they...

Yes, we are both repeating ourselves flecc...just reread my post...

We,ll have to agree to disagree on that Danid...Could affect entire world ??? Your premise means once you are part of a massive region...effectively you could never leave. Any local disagreements wether independent or not could be negotiated. Why should a,person living in Cornwall with no...

.. as a descendent of Brian Boru I claim the mull of kintyre and all the western isles back for ireland. we held them as recently as 1014. .. see how nonsensical such a claim is?. Going back to medieval history to claim justification is neatly as absurd. In the case of the 1978 Spanish...

Thanks Woosh..

Mike , you are not thinking this through. From my readings in Wilki etc, Spain already is very devolved with some 50 autonomous regions, and with extensive local powers and local democracy. It is likely that some of the other regions would like perhaps more autonomy also. But they have a...

Yes, I should have realized..Good luck.

"now ask of you a simple question are you always so obnoxious!." Apologies Danidl...it wasn't intended. My post reads quite abrupt...