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They don't seem capable of evolution tho. There is just so much dogma attaching the entire movement to what certain people see as "true socialism". It's a shame. If Party doesn't change it will die. Seems every facet of attempted change is written off... Consequence of which is labour decaying...

It isn't meant as a lie. The attachment was from official labour site, which clearly states... "where applicable labour Party members must be in a Union". I have no axe to grind over issue, I had thought it case in past... Step son just joined Labour Party and had to join Fire Service union to...

You are way out, as are Labour. UK is predominantly centrist and probably right leaning. Didn't you catch the last election or recent by elections. And your comments re gullible electorate only add to problem. Merely serves to reinforce the decisions people have made. People just think "thank...

Problem is which working class. There isn't one. They are all aspiring middle class blue collar, call centre or whatever workers with mortgages, investments, debts, loans and looking forward to foreign holidays.

Not quite Flecc. People at 14 aren't expected to be in employment, as far as I, m aware if in employment you must be a Union Member. (rule says where applicable? ) to join party.

Ah, I see. I can join now I, m not employed, but when in work I could not join without being a member of a union. (Son in law had to be a union member to join?) ???

Was a genuine question Flecc. Why can't Labour Party be open to none union workers?

So why not open Labour Party to none Union members?? Entire electorate could join Tory party... Only 23% of workers are eligible to join Labour... Unless they go against their own wishes... Join a union and then join party.? That is purely to the benefit of Unions... Not the party. To be in...

Here, we go again. Labour shouting to the world how desperate they are. Nobody cares about decorating flats or free holidays. Havent results just shown that?

Apologies, I, m on a roll now. I really believe this is fundamentally wrong. It's saying you can't really be a socialist and join Labour Party without being in a Union. I hated much of the union activity I saw whilst employed. I hated the attitudes and the methods... But strongly believed in...

Fair point, but the Union control could be reduced. If anything Union control has increased. McCluskey has way more power than is generally assumed. He is almost the king maker within the party. It was his support for Ed over David that set the party on its deeper swing to left. McCluskey still...

Splitting hairs, point made in post still applies. You are polarizing peoples opinions at a time when Tories have a massive majority, both in house of commons and with electorate opinion. It is a stupid but much used strategy by elements of labour party. In any walk of life insulting opposition...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9560441/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Labour-unions-jumped-vaccine-queue-voters-preferred-fairness.html Yes, I know it's the Mail with all that entails but the opinion and facts within article explain exactly why Labour have lost so badly and what people really think...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-57038429.amp What about here? I never in my wildest dreams thought I,d see this... After Orgreave etc. To this day Thatcher is hated. Yet Conservatives have gone from zero to 20 wards. If Labour are in decline here they really are on the...

Perhaps that's why we need more than ever a viable party waiting in wings. How bad have Tories got to get before electorate vote for a combination of McCluskey, Corbyn, Blair, Starmer, Unite and Momentum? They are all still in there somewhere prattling around. And, without wanting to sound...

Agreed... With the proviso, protecting business and the economy you are protecting people. I, m still in business, of sorts, and selling stuff at moment has never been so easy. People do have cash in their pockets, obviously system could always do more, but in my limited experience government...

Not sure even if that's case it makes them dysfunctional. Strange thing is this govt has adopted most left wing policies in Tory history. They represent high control,big government with high taxes (or will do to repay covid debts) and actually a level of social care (covid payments, furlough...

Agreed. If Tories do end up with a complete monopoly on power for another 20 years I wonder where we, ll end up.

There are many would argue we haven't got a dysfunctional government. That's purely subjective... Its the system putting it there under question. We don't really have a choice at moment. It's Tories or... Tories.. (either disguised as Labour..ie Blair or Tories) We don't really have a democracy...

https://www.fairvote.org/common_criticisms_of_pr_and_responses_to_them Depends which side of argument you settle for? Looking at our situation at moment and our one party system think I, d tend towards agreeing with you. In past always thought PR could lead to destabilised governments (Italy)...