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and I agree with you - were on different sides of the argument, to me remain seems an obvious choice, but if nothing else this thread has shown me that the voters may well act out in an almighty self destructive way. I trust the British people and keep a keen eye on overseas job opportunities.

"we" (usa/uk) have created most of the debt through causing the 2008 financial crisis by having a corrupt/compromised financial system, the eu wants to block excessive banker's bonuses, the tory/uk government does not. the question isn't how we will extract money from the eu - there isn't any...

and you're suggesting the brexiters on this thread have not "knocked and insulted" as opposed to having a meaningful argument?

it's good to see you're still trying to exercise the family brain cell (but a bit disheartening to note that you're still humping all the wrong trees), you're as usual getting lost in politicians' populist rhetoric (which really means very little) instead of the facts.

as a complete aside (really) I find the process on this thread interesting - as a non English person it is in a kind of cross cultural sense intriguing (you may not experience it this way if you're English). for one thing, where i'm from arguments are less nitty gritty factual, more emotive -...

well, successive governments have discussed it, but perhaps not quit ein the way some of the electorate wish they did. Corbyn was quoted as saying we wouldnt be able to control migration from teh EU a spart of it. That is (he may of cours ehave been misquoted) also discussing it. Australia is...

yes, but doesnt that just tell one everything one needs to know about leave's core voters? myopically self centered, self serving, "types"(i woudlnt dream of saying "congenital idiots") who wouldnt just sacrifice the environment for their self interest, but also in teh end their self interets...

it is ironic really (and i man this sincerely, as a voter who feels as ambivalent as most, but will vote to remain). "leave" appear to have skewered itself by focussing on immigration - when in reality there were many more nuanced and serious issues at stake (and that woudl perhasp have appaled...

"leave" hasnt exactly done itself any favours by making migration so centre stage to its argument (with its xenophobic overtones) - especially given that it is such a discredited (factually) argument?

thanks, all this agreement (this is beginning to feel like group therapy) is of course out of step with the whole culture of the debate, we're supposed to progress from vehement disagreement to launching attacks on each other ; )

i'm afraid i (naturally) dont have a solution or answer for the financial crisis or the migration resulting from the destabilised middleast. But I squarely lay the blame for both with USA/UK - in its financial systems and destabilisng foreign policy. And i really dont blame the EU for either. I...

the "democratic" USA/UK has given the world the 2008 financial crisis, much as it did in 1933. As many more infomred posters than me have pointed out over this thread, we have in mny ways much less represntation in a wesminster UK than under the EU. We are on differnet paradigms. For me europe...

yup, i do, and enjoy it (probably as much as a pedelecer does reading about new ebikes, i love what i do). i know this is moralistic, but if brexiters saw the world as an interesting place one could enjoy doing things in they might be less traumatised by migration

i think this is projection - one description of which is "hating most in others what we fear most in ourselves". The fact that brexiters are obsessed with benefits and whatever they can take from the world and others does not mean everyone is. I'm a labour party supporter and I'm at work on this...

You're giving us a glimpse of a right wing mentality. You're also illustrating the point I made earlier - that right wing types don't want to be heard, but to oppress. Thanks for that.

like i say, im all for proprotional represenattion - i.e. im not saying one shoudl do away with it - but i dont think it will fix teh problem. i dont think the agenda of teh militant right wing is, IMHO, to be heard - i think it is often to oppress. in countries with complete proprotional...

yes, but take Greece too for example, and golden dawn (racist right wing) becomoe a worrying force afetr the finaicial crisis. i can see proprotional represnetation should give everyone a voice. but in practcie it often goes with significant instability and frequent change of governments, as a...

but it hasnt stopped le pen in france from achieving much more than farage here (and with much more overt racism). i think mostly peopel are very disengaged from parliamentary politics, across the west. unfortunately it leaves it wide open for teh lieks of trump or farage or other populists to...

do go on, become insulting and perosnal, as you always do. what do you do you sually do next, become violent?

that may be part of what is happening. equally anotehr part is the aftermath of teh 2008 financial crisis and the rise of right wing extremism across europe (pretl in germany, le pen in france, farage here). It mirrors something of the 1933 depression and rise of nazi germany, in both cases a...