Yosepower hub kits.

[Olleman]

Finally I found a forum where the yosepower kits are discussed at length!

Olle from Sweden here. I have read the whole thread and learned a couple of new things.

I'm looking to buy a 28" kit rear wheel hub, preferably with a cassette. Since I need 28" and am not in the mood to re-spoke anything I will have to settle with the 36v version as for now. I wonder however about battery. I'd like to be able to do the "solder" mod to the controller and I don't want the battery to be a bottle neck for me. At the same time I want the most Ah/£ My commute is 13km one way and very flat. I do however sometimes ride with a trailer for the kids. So, would the battery supplied in the kit with the 28" 36V version work for me or do I need to look elsewhere?

Also, is the soldering mod even possible with the controller integrated into the battery rack?

,Olle

 

[egroover]

Hi Olle,
Welcome to the forum! I have the 36v rear hub 350w and 13ah battery kit with battery base controller , but in 26" wheel version. They do not sell the 28"/700c version with cassette, if you want the cassette wheel you have buy the wheel kit and battery separately. Then the kit doesn't come with the intergrated controller in the battery holder, but comes with a different separate controller. I have checked with Alice at yosepower, but no joy, that's the way it is, they come packed up from China into Germany and shipped from there. Your only option is to get the freewheel version if you want the integrated controller . The 350w 36v kit does about 23-24mph on the flat. Not sure of towing capability, I've not tried to mod my controller, the kit works well for me and where and how I ride. Good luck!

 

[Nealh]

The integrated battery controller is different tech, I believe the electronics are solid state to save space (similar to DasKit) so there isn't a normal shunt where you can add solder. The shunt resistor will be a flat black one (possibly ceramic) so you would have to either remove it and replace with a different ohm rating or add another by piggy backing one on to the existing.
All in all not worth messing with unless you are skilled in circuitry and most likely do more harm then good if you cock up.

 

[Olleman]

Thanks for your quick replies!

Seems that I will go for the version with the standalone controller. I really don't know if my bike has cassette or freewheel but from what I have gathered it's more likely that I have a cassette so I guess I'll go with that version then...

@Nealh you seem to be very good at this. Do you have anything to add in regards to the battery for my purpose? Also, perhaps a dumb questions but I have a friend whose insanely good with electronics - would it at all be possible to change capacitors hence making the 36v version able to do 48v?

 

[Nealh]

The 36v controller is a custom one made by Kuenteng electronics it is rated 15a max output max output from said controller is 540w or about 430w from the hub, any 36v battery will be ok but ideally buy the best you can afford.
Better off paying to have one with good cells rather then mediocre ones esp for towing .
Best for cycle life as selected by NASA are Samsung 35E (8a rated) for longest life @1c discharge (3.5a per cell).
Other wise go with 10a rated cells like Panasonic PF or GA cells. LG MJ1 or MH1.
Samsung 30Q cell is popular for its high ampacity rating though cycle life is deemed not so good.

Plenty on offer at this German battery maker, though not a recommend as I have never used them but maybe go on Pedelec.de forum to ask for a view on them.
https://enerprof.de/product-category/batteries/ebike-and-pedelec-batteries/


Regards to changing capacitors if your friend can swap them over then yes try it, the most that can happen is it doesn't work and you will have to spend $30 for replacement. The main one is the the large inrush one adjacent to the shunt but there ae 2 or 3 smaller cans that might need uprating. Though I think they may be getting some custom 48v ones made from Kuenteng.

 

[Olleman]

Thanks!

So, to simplify a bit. I can buy MH1 cell battery from yosepower for 270€ (16ah/36v) or noname (13ah/36v) for 100€ less. I will get marginally better performance at best from the more expensive battery but better cycle life and perhaps also better performance in 0 degrees weather?

Is there any way of putting a number on the "better cycle life" thing? Is it worth 100€ more? eg do I get several 100 more cycles?

 

[wheeliepete]

If you buy a branded cell battery, you know exactly what you are getting. With unbranded you don't. Some can perform really well while others will lose capacity quickly or under perform. For the sake of 100 euros, is it worth the risk, esp. as you are also getting extra capacity as well? You may also find you get an extra journey from the higher capacity, so saving on charge cycles over time.

 

[wheeliepete]

If it helps you decide, you are paying 3.80 euros extra per Ah for the LG cells.

 

[Olleman]

@wheeliepete thanks for your input. I'm a cheap bastard and always looking for the best deal! I'm also keen on trying 48V down the road (hopefully by modifying the 36V/15A controller) so a battery lasting a little "to long" could actually be a bad thing

One could also argue that "is it worth paying ~40% (comparing 13Ah with 13Ah) more for a battery that might be slighly better or much better". Well, perhaps we're down to philosophical questions now...

 

[Nealh]

The problem with no name cells is if they don't perform well or suffer bad voltage sag then you will have to buy twice, even pucker branded cells suffer sag but to less of a degree.
I use 48v but yet haven't upgraded to single use 48v batteries/packs, I still use my 10a rated cell 36v ones and use them in series with 12v booster packs to get my 48v. In time (years) to come the 36v & 12v will one day be replaced with true single 48v.

The MH1 3100/3200mah is rated at 10a but for cycle life 7a per cell is reported to be a best limit for it's use. At a 10a discharge test, temperature gets high and after just six of these discharges capacity loss and more voltage sag was seen when a further 5a discharge was placed on it.
Yose 16ah using MH1 will have 5 cells in parallel so typically each cell will see only a max 3a discharge at full power, typically though if using lower assist levels 1 -2a will be the more typical of discharge rate with only the occasional high power usage though does depend on how you use the bike's power.

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
Using the graph link above you can select two differing cells to compare and select the max discharge rate per cell expected.
Comparable cells to MH1 are MG1, Sam 29E & 32E, Orbtronic PD older version of Panasonic PF cell.

 

[wheeliepete]

Thanks for the cell comparator link Neal. I've looked at his cell tests a thousand times, but never noticed it

 

[Nealh]

For more unbiased cell stats you can use Mooch's reviews on E-cigs as well.
18650's scroll down about halfway then click on battery for new window to open the you have click on the graph links to see them.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/

Lygte.de & e-cigs both give great test specs on cells and both guys put up this info for all to see.

 

[Olleman]

wow, really big differencies when compared to noname cells as "Ultrafire". You might have me convinced But first I'll have a go to get some more information from yosepower about the cheap 13Ah battery.

 

[Nealh]

Any China cell brand with fire in the name is a IMHV a fire waiting to happen.
These really crap China XXXXxfire branded cells that barley produce 1000mah though are often ludicrously labelled as between 5000 - 9900 mah.

 

[egroover]

I've got the 36v 13ah chinese generic celled yosepower battery. It was new in August, the battery has done about 200 miles. I'm very please with the range and performance of the battery. I've got a LG celled 36v 10.4ah yosepower one arriving in the next couple of days, will compare the two and report back. There's a big thread on pedelecs.de site on the yosepower stuff, might be worth checking that out (google translate)

Spec comparison here:

 

[Nealh]

Egroover you have to let us know how thing's go with the M26 as it is one of their newer 10a cell offerings, M36 is also another newer offering I assume will eventually oust the MJ1 if it proves to be as good if not better.

 

[egroover]

Egroover you have to let us know how thing's go with the M26 as it is one of their newer 10a cell offerings, M36 is also another newer offering I assume will eventually oust the MJ1 if it proves to be as good if not better.

Yep will do Nealh. Should be with me by tomorrow or Thurs so will test it out at the end of the week for pulling power on the big hill nearby, and a range test at the weekend.
I didn't know it was a newer type of cell, that's good to know..I was originally looking at getting another of the generic 13ah batteries the same as I have now, but they were out of stock a couple of weeks ago when the ebay 15% discount code popped up, so when I saw I could get the LG one for about £141 delivered after discount, I thought I'd give it a try. I intend to pop it in the rack bag to extend rides out, or to leave in the car in the car park of a nearby forest for off road for a swap out if needed

 

[Nealh]

M26 & M36 are the newer designated LG cells and are meant to be an improved cell over the older ones being the very mediocre LF1 and the 10a offerings of MG1, MH1 & MJ1. However the it does appear any improvement is negligible with maybe slightly less sag higher up the voltage scale.

 

[Olleman]

@egroover Great, can't wait to hear your initial comments about the two batteries.

Meanwhile I got the answer I could have expected from yosepower: "No big difference between the two but the LG cells are in general a little better but no big difference"

I also asked if I could buy the 36v 350w kit with the 48v controller but that was a no go since the motor would esplode! ahh, well not explode, but "will be broken"

 

[Olleman]

@egroover how do you find these deals? Do you watch "hotukdeals" every day? I would get insane to have a newsletter from them every day about this and that...