Yet another London female cyclist dies
- Thread starter oldtom
- Start date
Horrific. I hear you completely - I was just thinking that lots of lorries look similar to that on the outside so would have the same visibility issues. I'd be terrified to drive one in a city, and that's coming from someone who loves driving large vans when I get the chance! I found that film enlightening as to the issues the lorry drivers have to deal with.
I don't want to divert attention from the thrust of the thread (the fact that there is a gender issue here) but I can't help thinking modern cheap technology can help. As I say, the 360 degree view on the Qashqai is very effective using a bit of digital signal processing of the video to show a top-down view of the vehicle and its surroundings. The same system would catch both the motorbike we see above and cyclists in nearside blind spots.
I don't want to divert attention from the thrust of the thread (the fact that there is a gender issue here) but I can't help thinking modern cheap technology can help. As I say, the 360 degree view on the Qashqai is very effective using a bit of digital signal processing of the video to show a top-down view of the vehicle and its surroundings. The same system would catch both the motorbike we see above and cyclists in nearside blind spots.
My view has always been that cabs should have better visibility and you have argued against that in the past. In effect saying that things are as they are and nothing can be done about it. But given the obvious blind spots, for the driver to turn in like that and swing over to the wrong side of the road when he was clearly unsighted was criminally stupid.
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>I'd be terrified to drive one in a city, and that's coming from someone who loves driving large vans when I get the chance! I found that film enlightening as to the issues the lorry drivers have to deal with.
I have a 60-year old friend who drives lorries delivering nationwide from Derby.
He has just refused an upgrade to a new more comfortable lorry because he knows his current vehicle is not allowed to drive in London due to emissions regs.
There will end up being a double profession - London and the rest.
F
>I'd be terrified to drive one in a city, and that's coming from someone who loves driving large vans when I get the chance! I found that film enlightening as to the issues the lorry drivers have to deal with.
I have a 60-year old friend who drives lorries delivering nationwide from Derby.
He has just refused an upgrade to a new more comfortable lorry because he knows his current vehicle is not allowed to drive in London due to emissions regs.
There will end up being a double profession - London and the rest.
F
I've never said nothing can be done about it, only that trucks that have to fully access any construction sites are restricted in what they can have as provisions. I've said they cannot have low forward cabs, they cannot have low enough side guard fences and they have to have short overhangs, all for ground clearance reasons. In consequence their drivers have some serious visibility issues just ahead of and on the left front of the cab.
And it's primarily these trucks that are involved in the accidents, not only in London but mainly there due to the high level of major construction work going on.
Many of the trucks operating in London have had safety measures added but they can't always work. For example they now commonly have warning sounds or spoken messages when preparing to turn left, but in this case a motorcyclist was involved. They wear crash helmets and commonly have ear plugs in as well for good reason, and that will clearly impair their ability to hear such a warning.
An all-round camera system like that mfj197 suggests could be the best way forward and systems are being tried, though how one could be installed and kept working adequately on a tipper truck working in dirty conditions is questionable at least.
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In some ways we are, for example in London British born white people are also a minority now. Otherwise such differences are often due to our conditions being very different from those in much of the country.
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Sorry to disappoint! I got that the point you made was to some extent meant to be provocative, but it contained too much truth for me to be upset by it.
Whether we like it or not and many don't, London has quite recently become another country, having little in common with elsewhere in Great Britain, or anywhere else in the world possibly.
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There are technical fixes for all those things if the will is there to do it, and if governments are prepared to force changes in design on wagons which operate in cities. I had a Citroen over forty years ago which had adjustable ride height, and at maximum it looked like it was on stilts. So something along those lines is technically possible combined with low cabs and flexible or retracting side guards.
The industry would hate it and lobby against it; and the truth is that government would prefer to let them kill a few cyclists and pedestrians every year rather than force them to spend a lot of money updating their equipment.
Everyone pays lip service to the maxim that you can’t put a price on human life, but actuaries do it all the time, and in practice it really isn’t very much compared to the interests of large business and their friends in government.
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A lot of truth in all this John, but it has to be said that the measures already taken over the last four years have worked as far as the 80% of male cyclists are concerned.
The remaining problem for cyclists vis-a-vis HGVs as I've repeatedly said is a gender one. And quite apart from trucks there remains a general problem with cars which still cause deaths and serious injuries to all types of cyclists, regardless of gender.
So for me that is where the efforts should be concentrated. Firstly addressing the female educational issue to stop those deaths, rather than cowardly ducking it as at present. Secondly implementing the road improvement measures that are easily achievable, for example adequate forward cycle zones for cyclists at all stop junctions with rigorous enforcement to keep them clear of motor vehicles.
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The people inside the yellow lines canot be seen by the driver!!!
And it's even worse for cyclists since the area under the left side mirrors joining both front zones is also blind to the driver.The people inside the yellow lines canot be seen by the driver!!!
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Interesting discussion as one who cycles and who has a daughter and ex wife who cycle and both scare me to death my opinion is that gender has an input in that men tend to be more spatially aware (I believe) but both men and women are entitled to road space . For me the problem is large vehicles in small spaces. If I were transport minister ( haha not much chance) I would be restricting large vehicles (over 7.5 tonnes) to hubs at the edge of towns/cities and then move goods in smaller vehicles to the retailers. Larger vehicles can be escorted with a speed restriction maybe 15 mph. What would be suitable for that ? lol. Why doesn't this happen? Vested interests by hauliers ? It would put the cost of distribution up. Is it worth it. In my book yes. Anyone more politically active than myself care to push this idea please go for it. Cycle safely . Bob
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But again completely impractical Bob. As I've explained earlier in the thread, London has been continuously full of very large construction projects engaging huge numbers of large construction trucks, commonly four axle 30 tonners. They've been shifting huge volumes of spoil from all the large tunnelling projects like the Ring Water Main, the trans-London Crossrail and the Thames Tideway tunnel preparatory works, plus many construction sites..
These are projects taking years which could never be completed with light trucks, and if using far larger numbers of those, the accidents would probably be multiplied due the the increased incidence of left turns. Secondly 7.5 tonners can be driven on car licences, so the very large number of drivers needed for all the extra vehicles would probably be even more of a danger.
And the speed restriction measure on larger trucks would make no difference, simply because nearly all these left turn deaths occur at low speed on tight left turns, often when moving off from a standstill.
So non starters. The practical solutions are as I explained and the dominant gender issue should not be ducked. That is now the core of the problem.
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