Wisper eMTB sneak preview

[Wisper Bikes]

I'm gonna disagree with a bunch of people on here and say that I think fat downtubes are clumsy looking. The downtube on your new MTB designs are very nice in my opinion, even with the battery bulge. But how are you supposed to please everyone? Whoever came up with the new MTB design is obviously a good designer. Maybe you should just trust him or her and let them do their thing. Asking us twerps on here is OK as long as you don't take us too seriously. I've even come across a business theory that says asking existing customers what they want is harmful to you because they always say they want faster horses rather than cars. It's your job to lead us toward new innovations because we are near-sighted.

Hi Topographer, in principal I agree with you, however it's always good to get advice from the people who use the bikes. I have had some very innovative ideas and concepts presented by the Pedelecs community in the past. The skill I suppose is picking out the wheat from the chaff.

I am with you on the fat down tube design, hence positing the concept drg. of the proposed new Wisper Torque. I still dislike the huge lump of motor placed around the BB, however the more people are getting used to the idea that an ebike does not look the same as an ordinary bicycle the less it matters, this may turn out to be the same for fat down tubes. I have had a sample of the Wisper Torque City and Trekking bike shown in an earlier post built using 3D printing, it may look better in 3 dimensions. The design certainly is not set in stone. I am leaning more towards the standard down tube battery with an enclosure, to protect and disguise the look of the battery.

All the best, David

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think that the main area that the industry should focus is on waterproofing, especially the battery and throttles.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Dave, we don't seem to be getting any water ingress problems on our throttles or batteries, is this a general industry issue?

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

I don't think water ingress is an issue anymore, baring some very exceptional circumstances. Water induced faults are result of damaged containers, ie, cracks in battery casing or gasket or around the cable entry. Statistically, that will continue to happen.
Most of the time, electrical faults are usually traced to faulty components on the circuit boards or sparks produced from vibrations.

 

[Woosh]

yes, but the E8000 is soo... expensive that I will stick with Bafang MaxDrive for the moment. I don't know how you manage the cost though, it makes me wanna cry.

PS: I deleted the pictures because it's your thread. Didn't want to pollute it. Apology.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

yes, but the E8000 is soo... expensive that I will stick with Bafang MaxDrive for the moment. I don't know how you manage the cost though, it makes me wanna cry.

PS: I deleted the pictures because it's your thread. Didn't want to pollute it. Apology.

Post deleted, thanks for your consideration.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

yes, but the E8000 is soo... expensive that I will stick with Bafang MaxDrive for the moment. I don't know how you manage the cost though, it makes me wanna cry.

It's not cheap but is is the best motor we have tested.

This is all a little out of our normal market, but we feel if we are going to produce an eMTB let's make the best we can.

All the best, David

 

[anotherkiwi]

The Stromer looks OK in the flesh, it is the first battery in tube bike I ever saw. A bit mopedish but OK.

The Giants have a bigger tube and they look OK because of the clever lead in at the top of the tube, the design is balanced somehow.

Brose powered bikes look good because of the size of the motor and the way it lends to inclining it to the angle of the tube. Even Yamaha motors look better integrated than the Bosch "blob". Trek got it right with the super commuter though.

 

[EddiePJ]

It's not cheap but is is the best motor we have tested.

This is all a little out of our normal market, but we feel if we are going to produce an eMTB let's make the best we can.

All the best, David

"best" even with the motor and battery overheating issues that are now beginning to slowly filter through?

I know that I would currently rather use a Bosch powered bike than a Shimano powered one for any trips that involve riding in the Alps. "Best" for me, equates to knowing that you can climb something without having to worry about whether the bike that you are riding is going to make it or not.

 

[Mal69]

"best" even with the motor and battery overheating issues that are now beginning to slowly filter through?


.

Is there a link to this story about Shimano and overheating?

 

[EddiePJ]

The most recent is the one below, and there are three other reports on the German pedelec forum. https://www.facebook.com/christoph.malin/posts/10213403168531974 Christoph is one person that I have a lot of respect for.

Tom Rae from this forum, also pointed out the following yesterday "Shimano are aware of the overheat issue and tackling it but it is something to bear in mind"

As boost is presumably the equivalent of turbo on the Bosch setting, it isn't very good that users aren't able to use it as they would like, especially when tackling steep technical climbs. The Bosch system has no such issues of the motor over heating. I would add though, that last year, I did experience the battery getting worryingly hot though when climbing in the Alps, but this year on the same climb, it didn't really get noticeably warm at all.

Until Shimano have the issue sorted, I'd not want to chance it.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Eddie, sorry for the delay in answering your question.

Shimano BV have now come back to me, here is their response.

Hi David,

Thanks for your mail and your concern.

We are convinced we have the best systems in the market. There are now thousands engines in the market and we are in close contact with all the brands testing/riding their E8000 bikes. We are watching the technical performance of our E8000 bikes in the market carefully, and if there should be any issue, we have powerful possibilities to take action. Same as Shimano does with all their products.

In this case below its one story (similar stories can be found with all other brands) and indeed W010 stands for overheating, but to judge such a warning code correctly, you should leave it to Shimano technicians. (was all firmware up to date, did the bike come with the correct settings from factory etc etc)

Kind regards,

Shimano Europe B.V.

This was the official position from Shimano. Maybe a little bland.

My team principal in Taipei has said the following...

"He is too general speaking!

I just checked from this side, E8000 groupset is brand new for this year, in other words they are in production this year only. In the past they have only sold E6000 for all bikes but Shimano have two systems, Trekking and MTB. For the MTB they reprogrammed to acheive a higher torque rating, but this was too much power for the E6000 motor. I agree with the E6000 and high torque settings there is an overheating problem.

The new E8000 is made specifically for high torque MTB use and does not have any problems, I think it is the best of all motors.

Stephen."

I am completely satisfied that Shimano are on top of any issues... if there are any! It would be interesting to see if the issue in question has been studied by the Shimano technicians to see if there had been any tampering, i.e. dongle use etc, etc, etc....

There is always a story to be told about any system or any brand, stories often put on line by a competitor or a disgruntled user.

In my opinion and the opinion of our development team both here and in Taipei, the Shimano E8000 is the very best eMTB system currently on the available.

The new Shimano E6100 looks excellent too, we will certainly be exploring the use on our City and Trekking bikes.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The Wisper Wolf Carbon is nearly here! It's a little like waiting for Christmas.

The first ever frame with graphics in place ready for finishing.... then assembly.

Happy days!

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

It's a little like waiting for Christmas.

I know the feeling! it's like waiting for your children to come home for Christmas! how exciting!

 

[EddiePJ]

That word "best" keeps cropping up. No motor could ever be considered "best" and someone is heading for a fall with that one.

Shimano are also seemingly either incorrect or in denial by stating that the E8000 does not have any issues, as evidently it does. I trust the unbiased opinion of people such as Christoph Milan, over a company marketing the product.

Based upon current reports, for the foreseeable future, I'll certainly be giving the system a miss. I need to know that a bike will make it to the top of a climb, not leave me stranded with a potentially dead bike.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Eddie, thanks for your input!

As I explained, the new Shimano E8000 does not have any issues overheating or otherwise. I trust Shimano and my guys in Taiwan and am absolutely confident in the system, to the point that I am spending hundreds of thousands installing them in our bikes.

We all here agree the Shimano system is currently the best MTB system on the market. That is, it's our opinion after testing all the top brands and four lesser known Chinese brands, surely there is nothing wrong with us having an opinion? No doubt it will be bettered one day but at the moment we think it's absolutely brilliant.

I look forward to selling you a bike maybe one day in the future Eddie, but in the mean time please watch this space to see if there are any problems. I doubt very much there will be.

All the best, David.

 

[EddiePJ]

As I explained, the new Shimano E8000 does not have any issues overheating or otherwise.
.

I totally disagree with the above, and further comments have now been added since my original posting of the following.
https://www.facebook.com/christoph.malin/posts/10213403168531974

.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks again Eddie, you obviously feel very passionate about this subject which is really good to see.

I totally believe that you are mistaken for all the reasons already stated.

In all of our opinion the Shimano E8000 is currently the best available eMTB system on the market, as I say it's our opinion. If we had preferred any of the other systems we would have invested in them. However it was absolutely unanimous that we have chosen well.

I have just had a look at the post you are advertising here, and just cut and pasted this comment.

"I have to say that I had the first time with a Shimano E8000 overheating problems in the late autumn 2016."

The new E8000 that we are using, as explained, is not this version. We and Shimano know about the occasional overheating issues with the old version this was mentioned in my earlier posts.

I am happy to agree to disagree on this one.

All the best, David

 

[RobF]

So the maker says there are 'no issues' - where have we heard that before?

As ever, the first response is to deny a problem exists.

Shimano now seem to be saying the problem that didn't exist has been sorted by upgrades to later models.

Once again, we've heard that before.

All this doublespeak makes me wonder if Shimano has employed that American defence spokesman with his 'known unknowns'.

I don't speak or read German, but I'm guessing the motors only overheat after a good thrashing - use to which very few owners would put them to.

The purchase decision is a tough one, the Bosch motor is proven, so why take even a small risk on something that's still in development?

Access to superior performance is always a temptation, but given that both motors are UK legal, I doubt there's a significant difference between them.

 

[Gaz]

It's a little like waiting for Christmas.

[Elf mode on:]
SSAAAANNNTTTTTAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!
[Elf mode off]

Errr, move along. Nothing to see here

Gaz

NB: Extremely interested in the E8000