Winnats Pass.

Artstu · Apr 15, 2016

Hopefully you can upload your GPS data of the ride to Strava.

JuicyBike · Apr 15, 2016

Winnats is lovely, especially from a hang glider above - I used to fly there regularly, pre-menieres.
We have a customer in his eighties, a lifelong keen cyclist whose very first ride out on one of our early Sports was up Winnats (and beyond).
He came back to our shop in Buxton to tell us all about it - he was so thrilled as it used to be along his favorite route, understandably (quite beautiful).

trex · Apr 16, 2016

if you burn 52WH in 8 minutes, your motor runs at 52 * (60 / 8 ) = 390W
The average current is about 10A.
if you go up the same hill in 10 minutes instead of 8, 52 * 6 = 312W, average about 8A.

trex · Apr 16, 2016

Base on the data from this source:

http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Winnats-Pass&qryMountainID=9057

Average grade: 11.7 %

Length: 1.6 km

Height start: 205 m

Height top: 393 m

Ascent: 188 m

Maximum: 20 %

that's 100% big hubs territory.
Flud, you are at a disadvantage in the CD vs hubs debate. We debated the issue for a long time, most of 2014. Your opponents have access to custom battery packs, power meters, derestriction and throttle. If you race your bike against theirs, even if they pedal backward most of the hill, you are not going to win.

trex · Apr 16, 2016

yes with your 52WH consumption. They can easily do that, especially with the XD motor.
You have to race on a hill with average gradient of over 14% to beat the XD and a strong pedaler like d8veh. Every time you change gear, you lose a bit of momentum. The problem with CD in a race is the time it takes to shift from 6 to 3 for example, you can't just do that in one push most of the time. Going up a hill like winnats with a TS bike, you can lose 10-20 seconds changing gears. That's why I said CD with a throttle in your other thread. The throttle reduces the need to change gear.
If I were to race against d8veh's XD on winnats, I'd take the woosh Krieger, set the gear to 4, yank the throttle to full and pedal. I wouldn't bother to change gear until the steep bit at the top.

trex · Apr 16, 2016

I wouldn't know the answer to that.
Personally, I like a CD with a hub gear like the Zephyr-CDN, 20" folder.
It's easy to take with me in the car on holiday, easy in the woods and it climbs more or less anything.

Deleted member 4366 · Apr 16, 2016

Flud, I've done many measurements on many different bikes and motors in an attemp to find the ultimate efficiency. I found that as long as you have a motor that can cope with the hills that you encounter, there's little difference in efficiency. Any difference that people show on this forum can usually be attributed to their riding styles and pedal efforts. One can say that, generally, bikes with torque sensors use less battery power than when using a throttle or cadence sensor because they tend to make you pedal harder, but remember that's only a generalisation. Speed has a massive effect on battery useage. Obviously, the slower you go, the greater the ratio of pedal effort to motor effort. The type of bike also makes a massive difference. On the road, a light bike with thin forks and tyres takes much less effort to propel, whether by leg or motor. There's no way your bike would be able to match a bike like that on the road.

What I learnt is that it's absolutely meaningless to make any claims about any bike's efficiency unless you have another bike along side you with a rider of similar weight, power and fitness, or if you do the same circuit consecutively on different bikes.

Finally, though battery meters in the LCDs are getting better, they don't give anything absolute. You need a wattmeter to collect data to compare between bikes.

Deleted member 4366 · Apr 16, 2016

If you put the word "some" in front of each of those statements in the list, then they become true, except statement 1. If a bike doesn't have suspension in the motor wheel. The motor makes no difference to unsprung weight. In fact a rear hub-motor could be better for some types of off-road riding. I can make an equivalent list of problems with middle motors, but there's no point. Every system has advantages and disadvantages. It's up to the user to select the system that matches his needs. Unqualified statements like that list can cause somebody to make a wrong choice. That's why I don't like them and I'll jump on anybody that makes any other unqualified statement that. Over the years, we've had it many times relating to efficiency, front motor vs back, CD vs hub, suspension vs rigid, ready-made vs kit, dealer vs online, etc, etc. It's exactly the same with politicians, they always cherry pick the data and facts to represent their cause. How can anybody choose which way to vote in the EU referendum, when all the the information is biased? Who is there that's knowledgeable in the matter and independent, who can tell us?

VictoryV · Apr 16, 2016

d8veh said:
How can anybody choose which way to vote in the EU referendum, when all the the information is biased? Who is there that's knowledgeable in the matter and independent, who can tell us?

Mr Flecc & Professor Hawkins

Deleted member 4366 · Apr 16, 2016

VictoryV said:
Mr Flecc & Professor Hawkins

That's funny. I was going to write that I reckon I could get better information from Flecc than anybody on the TV or down the pub, but he needs to go shopping today. I didn't want his head to swell so much that he couldn't get through the door.

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