Will the end of full speed throttles in January 2016 cause a rush to buy.

[craiggor]

Just thought .if I fix my engine to my bike I don't charge my batteries can I start my engine.

 

[flecc]

This was what I thought would be the case.Is there nowhere you can find out where something is illegal. it would have to go up before the CP's ( is that what its called ) I wonder if they can they tell me.I don't think a patent would help.I think they would take your money with one hand and lock you up with another.

Normally it has to be a solicitor giving advice, but in these obscure areas they would be likely to say only a court ruling would suffice. The CPS won't help, that's not their function. In their full name of Crown Prosecution Service, they were conceived to rule on the legality of any prosecution proposed by the police. Since then that's been extended to include the chance of success of the police case, this to avoid wasting court time.
.
.

 

[flecc]

Just thought .if I fix my engine to my bike I don't charge my batteries can I start my engine.

That again comes down to the position of a fitted engine with emissions, used while in motion. And it might not even have to be while in motion, another law might come into play when stationary.

Stationary idling is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
.

 

[craiggor]

Normally it has to be a solicitor giving advice, but in these obscure areas they would be likely to say only a court ruling would suffice. The CPS won't help, that's not their function. In their full name of Crown Prosecution Service, they were conceived to rule on the legality of any prosecution proposed by the police. Since then that's been extended to include the chance of success of the police case, this to avoid wasting court time.
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.

And if I talk to a traffic cop he will say he would arrest me most probably.

 

[craiggor]

That again comes down to the position of a fitted engine with emissions, used while in motion. And it might not even have to be while in motion, another law might come into play when stationary.

Stationary idling is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
.

Have ice cream vans got an exception on that one? Every driver must brake that one.Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[flecc]

Have ice cream vans got an exception on that one? Every driver must brake that one.Guilty until proven innocent.

Not exemptions, but presumably because there are a number of exceptions in that law. For example drain cleaning vehicles. It's widely disobeyed as well of course.
.

 

[craiggor]

Normally it has to be a solicitor giving advice, but in these obscure areas they would be likely to say only a court ruling would suffice. The CPS won't help, that's not their function. In their full name of Crown Prosecution Service, they were conceived to rule on the legality of any prosecution proposed by the police. Since then that's been extended to include the chance of success of the police case, this to avoid wasting court time.
.
.

Just reading a article in the guardian, Hoverboards are illegal on both roads and pavements,according to guidance released by the CPS.It leads to the CPS web site.seems it is there job to to tell us the law.

Normally it has to be a solicitor giving advice, but in these obscure areas they would be likely to say only a court ruling would suffice. The CPS won't help, that's not their function. In their full name of Crown Prosecution Service, they were conceived to rule on the legality of any prosecution proposed by the police. Since then that's been extended to include the chance of success of the police case, this to avoid wasting court time.
.
.

 

[flecc]

Just reading a article in the guardian, Hoverboards are illegal on both roads and pavements,according to guidance released by the CPS.It leads to the CPS web site.seems it is there job to to tell us the law.

But that's not acting for the public. The CPS lawyers act for the police when they ask for clarity, and their central HQ also acts for the government when there are national problems like this hoverboard issue. But their offices won't be interested in answering individual inquiries from the public and certainly haven't the time to do that. Their constant complaint is that they are buried in courts work and underfunded.

Public legal inquiries are the job of solicitors, some of whom also offer limited free legal aid. When that's not the answer for some reason, there's the Citizens Advice Bureau.
.

 

[craiggor]

But that's not acting for the public. The CPS lawyers act for the police when they ask for clarity, and their central HQ also acts for the government when there are national problems like this hoverboard issue. But their offices won't be interested in answering individual inquiries from the public and certainly haven't the time to do that. Their constant complaint is that they are buried in courts work and underfunded.

Public legal inquiries are the job of solicitors, some of whom also offer limited free legal aid. When that's not the answer for some reason, there's the Citizens Advice Bureau.
.

I have only seen one hoverboard and that was last week.videos on you tube with people going up to police on them asking directions.

 

[Lancslass]

Hi I'm new here but have been lingering around for awhile. (Some would say 'loitering'!)
I am probably going to get a Woosh Santana CD, with hubby getting a Sport CD in Spring 2016. So this thread was of interest as they are both throttle bikes.
Members may want to know that I emailed Woosh a couple of weeks ago, raising the question of whether the law changes will impede on them selling their throttle bikes from January on. It was Tony there who responded, and I have pasted his reply below:


"The throttle, if fitted on present stock, will remain but after January the first, we will have to disconnect the throttle before sending out the bike.

You reconnect the throttle at your own risk."

I was pleased to receive this response and will be arranging a test ride of the two bikes at Cambridge in a few months time.

Just to say, it's a shame that you guys don't seem to have the time or politeness to give a reply or a welcome to a new gal on here. Thought I was making a useful contribution to the conversation by letting you know what one of the main suppliers have to say on this subject.

 

[craiggor]

Just to say, it's a shame that you guys don't seem to have the time or politeness to give a reply or a welcome to a new gal on here. Thought I was making a useful contribution to the conversation by letting you know what one of the main suppliers have to say on this subject.

Just make sure you get your bikes before january.If you don't and you connect that wire you will be breaking the law.Can't recommend any bikes I'am new to this but I built my own.

 

[craiggor]

Just make sure you get your bikes before january.If you don't and you connect that wire you will be breaking the law.Can't recommend any bikes I'am new to this but I built my own.

If you are any where near Bolton.valley scooters Blackburn road,have a large range for you to go and look at.

 

[Lancslass]

If you are any where near Bolton.valley scooters Blackburn road,have a large range for you to go and look at.

Thanks, I am nearby. I'll go have a look.

 

[Andy_H]

Just to say, it's a shame that you guys don't seem to have the time or politeness to give a reply or a welcome to a new gal on here. Thought I was making a useful contribution to the conversation by letting you know what one of the main suppliers have to say on this subject.

Welcome, from a fellow Lanky (and also new here)

Did Tony say whether the Cambridge store is still open, maybe Trex on here will know, though I can give them a call tomorrow, the details used to be on the Woosh site as I was looking to go down this week, but I now can't find any mention of it on their web site, just the Southend store, which in my case is more of a pain to get to by train from where I live in Lancashire (with least cost).

Oh, just so my post is still 'on' topic, I wondered what the actual wording was, as one E-bike site states one can't have a 'full speed throttle', which if correct begs the question, why not just put an 90% max speed throttle on the bike .

Edit - Valleys web site is http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/

 

[flecc]

Just to say, it's a shame that you guys don't seem to have the time or politeness to give a reply or a welcome to a new gal on here. Thought I was making a useful contribution to the conversation by letting you know what one of the main suppliers have to say on this subject.

I think it was probably because your post ended with the fact that you'd been given the correct answer already and for us that answer was common knowledge to most members. Had you asked a question I'm sure you'd have had plenty of answers, and the responses to your post I've quoted show that willingness.

You would also have had responses if you'd posted in the "Introduce yourself" section, as you'll see by checking that.
.

 

[craiggor]

Welcome, from a fellow Lanky (and also new here)

Did Tony say whether the Cambridge store is still open, maybe Trex on here will know, though I can give them a call tomorrow, the details used to be on the Woosh site as I was looking to go down this week, but I now can't find any mention of it on their web site, just the Southend store, which in my case is more of a pain to get to by train from where I live in Lancashire (with least cost).

Oh, just so my post is still 'on' topic, I wondered what the actual wording was, as one E-bike site states one can't have a 'full speed throttle', which if correct begs the question, why not just put an 90% max speed throttle on the bike .

Edit - Valleys web site is http://www.northwestelectricbikecentre.co.uk/

I think the legislation say's something about walking mode around 4 or 6mph.I don't know if I'm coming or going with all the different web site's.You would think the law is on gov.UK.But that has only been update a couple of mouths ago,and its missing some info.For the legislation that was past last January that let's us have 250w,no weight limit and a throttle(That will change again next january)You have to go to legislation.com.For the road traffic act and info on other electric vehicles.And for law there is CPS.COM.

 

[trex]

Welcome, from a fellow Lanky (and also new here)

Did Tony say whether the Cambridge store is still open, maybe Trex on here will know, though I can give them a call tomorrow, the details used to be on the Woosh site as I was looking to go down this week, but I now can't find any mention of it on their web site, just the Southend store..

woosh in Cambridge is closing by the end of tthe month. The landlord, World of Computers, who is an old friend of Hatti, wants the space back.

 

[Andy_H]

woosh in Cambridge is closing by the end of tthe month. The landlord, World of Computers, who is an old friend of Hatti, wants the space back.

Thanks trex.

 

[flecc]

I think the legislation say's something about walking mode around 4 or 6mph.I don't know if I'm coming or going with all the different web site's.You would think the law is on gov.UK.But that has only been update a couple of mouths ago,and its missing some info.For the legislation that was past last January that let's us have 250w,no weight limit and a throttle(That will change again next january)You have to go to legislation.com.For the road traffic act and info on other electric vehicles.And for law there is CPS.COM.

As I've posted, the CPS route is a waste of time if you really need to see the law. Here's the full information:

The original 1983 EAPC law, published in a 2005 document:

http://www.electricbikesexperts.co.uk/support-files/department-for-tranport-eapc-guidelines.pdf

The 6th April 2015 revisions:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/474/pdfs/uksi_20150474_en.pdf

The June 2015 guidance document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/462575/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

The latest edition of the EU motor vehicle type approval law exemption for pedelecs which will be in force for us from January 1st 2016. To save you ploughing right through that, jump past the link and read the relevant extract I'm showing below it:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2013:060:0052:0128:EN:PDF

This law exempts pedelecs from being subject to motor vehicle law if it complies with Chapter 1, Article 2, section 2, sub section (h).

This is what that sub-section specifies:

pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with
an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous
rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the
output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops
pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and
finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h

I believe the walk-alongside throttle isn't pedelecs law, it comes under the Pedestrian Controlled Vehicles legislation which specifies the maximum speed as 4 mph. Rather than just giving the dry law, I'm posting the link to the Hansard document from when that was being approved by the House of Lords, since that contains many useful links:

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1963/may/29/pedestrian-controlled-vehicles

I trust you will note that use of a 4 mph hand throttle to get away from a standstill while riding appears to be illegal, since a rider seated on a bike with a foot on a pedal is not a pedestrian, as ruled by Waller LJ in the Court of Appeal, (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441).
.

 

[craiggor]

As I've posted, the CPS route is a waste of time if you really need to see the law. Here's the full information:

The original 1983 EAPC law, published in a 2005 document:

http://www.electricbikesexperts.co.uk/support-files/department-for-tranport-eapc-guidelines.pdf

The 6th April 2015 revisions:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/474/pdfs/uksi_20150474_en.pdf

The June 2015 guidance document:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/462575/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

The latest edition of the EU motor vehicle type approval law exemption for pedelecs which will be in force for us from January 1st 2016. To save you ploughing right through that, jump past the link and read the relevant extract I'm showing below it:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2013:060:0052:0128:EN[emoji14]DF

This law exempts pedelecs from being subject to motor vehicle law if it complies with Chapter 1, Article 2, section 2, sub section (h).

This is what that sub-section specifies:

pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with
an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous
rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the
output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops
pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and
finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h

I believe the walk-alongside throttle isn't pedelecs law, it comes under the Pedestrian Controlled Vehicles legislation which specifies the maximum speed as 4 mph. Rather than just giving the dry law, I'm posting the link to the Hansard document from when that was being approved by the House of Lords, since that contains many useful links:

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1963/may/29/pedestrian-controlled-vehicles

I trust you will note that use of a 4 mph hand throttle to get away from a standstill while riding appears to be illegal, since a rider seated on a bike and operating a pedal is not a pedestrian, as ruled by Waller LJ in the Court of Appeal, (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441).
.

Nice one.Its a pity this forum does not have more sub forums.A post like this could be in THE LAW forum.I was reading a post about mudguards clearing disc brakes yesterday. Today I took a pick of mine to post.did a search for mudguards and it was not there.found it in the time line but it would be easy to find stuff if each part of an ebike had its own sub forum.