Why does a Pedelec cut out at 15.5mph?

[JOB100]

I fully understand what they mean in the legislation that says "an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedaling” fall within the scope of Directive 2006/42/EC on machinery".

But I just wanted some opinions on why on earth it makes sense to cut out the motor at 15.5mph. I'm having real issues justifying buying a machine that stops at that speed. I desperately need something that will ease my journey, and get me to around 20mph. If I travel at 15.5mph I can't get where I'm going in time as it's too slow, and if I go above this, I knacker myself out because it's all human power.

Just trying to understand the logic behind why they chose to do this? For me, adding my leg power to a motor working at 250w to provide 15.5mph, so that infact I can get up to 20 or so mph would solve all my problems. Instead, it solves none of my problems.

 

[Emo Rider]

I do believe that this was achieved by a determination that the average speed of an average cyclist would be 15.5mph or 25kph. Other than that I know nothing, nothing else at all about why

 

[flecc]

I've already answered when you said you were going to pose this question, but here is the answer copied across:

Simple answer JOB100. The main cycling countries in Europe like The Netherlands have utility riders, using their bikes purely as transport with no sporting intentions, so they commonly ride in a leisurely fashion at up to about 12 mph. So the legislators fixed the assist speed limit (25kph) to match that, not wanting to cater fro those with sport riding inclinations.

Equally in Japan where pedelecs took off very early as well, cycling speeds are quite slow since they they often ride on shared pavements and in some zones they have to and there the speeds restricted by law. So they too adopted a 15 mph limit.

Also when most of Britain cycled in the 1940s and before, that too was utility cycling at up to about 12 mph, and that was the assist limit that Britain adopted originally, only increasing it to match the EU later.

But in Britain cycling almost died out in the 1960s and '70s, only reviving with the invention of the mountain bike from the early 1980s, meaning it relaunched in a sporting fashion, a bias that has stuck ever since. So here in Britain we see grim-faced, helmeted commuters hard-pedalling at 20mph or so in a manner simply not seen in the main European cycling countries.

The authorities see this as sport style riding and cannot see why those fit enough to ride like this would want assistance. That's a reasonable position, that assistance is for those who need assistance, not as a booster of average speed for the already fit. It also doesn't help that cycling is done by such a tiny minority in Britain, just 3% with e-bikes forming just 1% of bike sales. In the Netherlands it's over 70% cycling with pedelecs forming 13% of bike sales.
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[EddiePJ]

What is interesting is that a lot of pedelec riders moan about the cut off point, and on the road I also find it annoying, but I suspect that if it were to be raised, it would still be just as annoying, whatever the speed increment.

 

[anotherkiwi]

So the real answer is (if I may flecc) countries with high population density, lots of riders and good talkers in high places dictated to the rest of Europe the speed they should be riding. This is just forgetting the riders in countries with hills or greater distances needed to ride between destinations "because they are not historically cycling countries".

I shout "*******" come ride with me where I ride you Dutch and other flatland "bicycle experts". We need more Watts, we need higher average speed to cover greater distances where there are no cycle paths and even lesser people.

But there you go Europe works this way and not that...

Don't get me wrong I love the European project, hell I wasn't even born here! Just need some common sense, not common laws and regulation which don't serve all of us "Europeans".

PS the bad word filter caught a word starting with B and ending with cks...

 

[flecc]

Just need some common sense, not common laws and regulation which don't serve all of us "Europeans".

But herein lies the problem. Transport including pedelecs crosses borders so each country simply cannot have individual regulations if the EU is to work at all. That's why from the very beginning the EU has had transport integration at its heart and have the say. And when they make decisions about cycling, who are they going to take note of, countries where the great majority cycle or a country where hardly anyone does?

In Britain there is a somewhat insular attitude to this since we have a strip of water separating us from the rest of Europe, but in much of Europe where people cycle across borders daily for work, shopping and socialising, the attitude can be very different. Just one example, the outcry for independent acting throttles in Britain while in mainland Europe they scarcely get a mention.

In the cycling and e-bike world, we in Britain are the oddballs, so we are never going to get much of a say in such matters.
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[anotherkiwi]

In Britain there is a somwhat insular attitude to this since we have a strip of water separating us from thd rest of Europe, but in much of Europe where people cross borders daily for work, shopping and socialising, the attitude can be very different. Just one example, the outcry for independent acting throttles in Britain while in mainland Europe they scarcely get a mention.
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1. are you sure you are in Europe? We always thought you with the bad guys from across the water until Tony the other one (the Blair) did his coming out last week

2. my border is hilly, there is very little public transport hence my recent introduction to the pedelec world, unfortunately the laws fail me... my dream is of socialising with those on the other side...

3. what is this throttle of which you speak?

 

[Sherman]

I guess a lot has to do with the fact that pedelecs are considered bicycles, and bicycles are supposed to be ridden on bike and shared paths. 25kph is good top speed for those paths. Yes, people on push bikes can ride faster but very few can sustain that speed. I would not like to see 45kph pedelecs zipping along bike paths, same as allowing mopeds on them.

Maybe the new EU-regulations and vehicle class L1e-B will bring some solutions for faster ebikes.

Also, check out new L1e-A regulations, lightweight electric vehicles, max 1kW, 25kph, throttle allowed. I guess these have to type approved and are not considered bicycles like max 250w pedelecs but can still be ridden on bike paths.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Its also worth noting, that even with the 15.5mph cut off, on a relatively straight commute... I'm faster on a legal eBike than I am on my road racing bike.

There is a thread here, that you might not have seen Job100.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-much-faster-by-ebike.16505/page-2

Summary, was... the 15.5mph cut off is enough to make a ride faster, or easier for even a fit cyclist in a hilly area. If the ride had more stopping and starting the difference would be even greater, because its all the time spent below the cut off, and on the hills where you save the time and effort.

In essence it made me realise the cut off is adequate for on and off road.

ht

 

[flecc]

2. my border is hilly, there is very little public transport hence my recent introduction to the pedelec world, unfortunately the laws fail me... my dream is of socialising with those on the other side...

I'm a bit surprised that the current law isn't adequate for those hills. I live in the hilly North Downs and my home is up a 14% hill. I also tackle much steeper hills of up to 25%. Although never a sporting superfit type, I rode unpowered to the age of 67, and only then adding power to cope with heavy trailer pulling, though by 70 both my bikes were assisted.

My Lafree with the old weaker Panasonic unit did make me work very hard on long steep hills, but my current eZee powered bike copes ok on everything with my bit of assistance added. That eZee motor is the rough equal of the BPM and BPM-CST units, and todays better crank units should have no trouble climbing. Since they are all legal, you should be able to get an e-bike that copes sufficiently.
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[anotherkiwi]

33.47 kph average I like a lot!

I can't wait until my big wheel bike conversion is done. My estimation is 30 kph average instead of 27 with 26" wheels on my ride to the station. With a little cheating (20 amp controller and cut off set to 35 kph) I should be able to equal that average. I am much older than you are

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'm a bit surprised that the current law isn't adequate for those hills. I live in the hilly North Downs and my home is up a 14% hill. I also tackle much steeper hills of up to 25%. Although never a sporting superfit type, I rode unpowered to the age of 67, and only then adding power to cope with heavy trailer pulling, though by 70 both my bikes were assisted.
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I am a speed freak with rugby knees... Each of us has a sweet spot where we feel comfortable. Mine is at about 27-28 kph, just over the cut tout. That is why I keep going on about a legal limit of 30 kph being ideal.

The woosh predictor tells me the steepest bit is 15.3% from Saint Jean de Luz to Hendaye station. In the town of Hendaye you have 25% hills all over the shop. One of them on the way to the coastal road (La Corniche) I had never been able to ride up without assistance. It is even difficult to push the bike to the top on foot. At full power I manage a top speed of around 10 kph. On the station route on the long 4 km climb I do about 23-24 kph average with reasonable rider input - 18-19 kph when I am dressed in city clothes and taking it easy. The average over the whole 13 km is 27 kph so I can do it in 30 minutes I would like to bring that down to 25 minutes. It is all about catching the train even if there is traffic or a little bit of wind.

 

[flecc]

33.47 kph average I like a lot!

I can't wait until my big wheel bike conversion is done. My estimation is 30 kph average instead of 27 with 26" wheels on my ride to the station. With a little cheating (20 amp controller and cut off set to 35 kph) I should be able to equal that average. I am much older than you are

I've never managed a 20 mph (32 kph) average on an e-bike in my area, not even on the eZee Torq that assisted to 22 mph. About 17 mph (27 kph) was my best average which I think perfectly reasonable in my hilly area. After all, the club and professional riders who train in this area typically average only 19 to 21 mph (30/33 kph) on their runs, and I don't think pedelecs should try to match pro race cyclists who compete to Tour de France standards.
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[flecc]

I am a speed freak with rugby knees... Each of us has a sweet spot where we feel comfortable. Mine is at about 27-28 kph, just over the cut tout. That is why I keep going on about a legal limit of 30 kph being ideal.

But that 27.5 kph is permitted already, like here the authorities have a tolerance and that's only 10% over the nominal 25 kph.

The woosh predictor tells me the steepest bit is 15.3% from Saint Jean de Luz to Hendaye station. In the town of Hendaye you have 25% hills all over the shop. One of them on the way to the coastal road (La Corniche) I had never been able to ride up without assistance. It is even difficult to push the bike to the top on foot. At full power I manage a top speed of around 10 kph. On the station route on the long 4 km climb I do about 23-24 kph average with reasonable rider input - 18-19 kph when I am dressed in city clothes and taking it easy. The average over the whole 13 km is 27 kph so I can do it in 30 minutes I would like to bring that down to 25 minutes. It is all about catching the train even if there is traffic or a little bit of wind.

So it is all about speed then, and the authorities just don't see pedelecs in that way since what you want is well over reasonable cycling speeds. As said, assistance is for those who need assistance to cycle, not for increase above normal cycling performance.

They do provide for you with suitable motor vehicle classes of course, since they don't see higher levels of performance as normal cycling.
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[chr4]

I think the current cut off speed is about right. At least ebikes are getting the same treatment as push bikes. In US where the cut off speed is 20mph ebikes do not always have the same access - although it varies by state. We need to bear in mind that cycle paths are also used by kids etc. and 15.5 mph is reasonable.
Accusing other countries of dictating UK on ebike laws does not make sense either. It is UK which always lags behind. First with limiting motors to 200W until recently when the rest of EU allowed 250W and now by not accomodating speed pedelecs when the Netherlands and Germany have not only allowed them but are building cycle paths specifically designated for higher speeds.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I can work with 27 kph cut off - the power does go away at just over 25 kph with the cut off set to 27 kph.

Big wheels will mean greater downhill and on the flat speeds which should nudge the average up to where I want it. I will be losing some torque going uphill however I think an 18A controller is plenty enough to compensate for that it gives one whole HP with the battery at full charge!

 

[mike killay]

My favourite ride is along the promenade at Swansea. This on sunny day is full of cyclists, mainly doing 10mph, little children on bikes, Mums pushing prams, dog walkers etc.
20mph would be dangerous and get ebikes banned..

 

[anotherkiwi]

All of my posts about higher speed have been about commuting on the open road. There is no cycle path worthy of that name between home and destination. If you look on the maps they will tell you there is one but in reality it is a (bad) joke and I stay well away from it.

I know how to chill out and cruise too and my bike is perfect for that. As I said in another thread (IIRC) speed is limited to 10 kph in San Sebastian and even to walking speed (5 kph) on some sections. And currently the police are cracking down on riding on footpaths etc. down there.

 

[flecc]

There is no cycle path worthy of that name between home and destination. If you look on the maps they will tell you there is one but in reality it is a (bad) joke and I stay well away from it.

Same problem in Britain. Frankly I'm not interested in the authorities providing cycle paths if they aren't going to maintain them in a usable condition, and that they certainly don't do here. Once provided they are never swept and almost never repaired.
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[oldtom]

Same problem in Britain. Frankly I'm not interested in the authorities providing cyce paths if they aren't going to maintain them in a usable condition, and that they certainly don't do here. Once provided they are never swept and almost never repaired.
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Ditto that flecc! Round my way, they seem to have deliberately carved out such paths from overgrown bramble, blackthorn and giant thistle forests. Where they are relatively safe to cycle, dog walkers use them with the usual consequence of dogs being left to their own devices, off the lead.

I have more than once carried secateurs with me as it can be downright dangerous attempting to weave one's way through thorny material at face height.

Tom