Why does a Pedelec cut out at 15.5mph?

[JOB100]

My favourite ride is along the promenade at Swansea. This on sunny day is full of cyclists, mainly doing 10mph, little children on bikes, Mums pushing prams, dog walkers etc.
20mph would be dangerous and get ebikes banned..

Well I get the picture now, thanks to all who responded as to why this is the case. But I do tend to sense an "I'm alright Jack" sort of attitude amongst some people.
Look, I'm not trying to get anyone's back up, but I think the point has been made that we do live in a very different cycling culture and infrastructure to Europe.
I live and commute in greater London, which is heavily congested and polluted. Trains are incredibly expensive and awful. I'm sorry, but for those with dreamy attitudes towards public transport should try taking my train from East Croydon which is late absolutely every single day............or cancelled. Keeps swapping platforms. It's just a case of how late it will be. Buses are a joke. I tried it one day from East Croydon, and it took 1.5hrs to travel 8 miles. Luckily I don't then have to go on to face the Tube Strikes in central London. I'm not just saying this for my benefit, there are thousands like me who have no good options. As I've said before, mopeds are dirty noisy beasts, which only gain quickness by filtering traffic which is dangerous, and start up costs are large (£1400 - lessons, tax, insruance, riding gear) before you've even bought a bike. Electric mopeds are some way off from being affordable.

For all the hype and attention the cyclelane superhighways in London are generating, I still spend 95% of my time not in a cycle lane whenever I do commute by bike. So all these suggestions that it would be dangerous to see 20mph bicycles in bicycle lanes are null and void. Yes it would be dangerous, but A) there are so few cycle lanes for it to even happen en masse and B) I've seen bat out of hell cyclists on London Streets and they tend to ride in the road alongside the existing cycle superhighways because there are so many slower cyclists in them.
I'd also like to point out that I was cycling around Copenhagen a few months ago, and whilst the majority were riding a fairly slow pace, there were plenty racing cyclists on the commute.
Remember, the goal should primarily be to rid ourselves of unecessary cars on the road. We still have far too few cyclists on the road and need to do whatever we can to get more out there. Pedelecs just don't meet the needs of distance commuters.

 

[Golyo]

My favourite ride is along the promenade at Swansea. This on sunny day is full of cyclists, mainly doing 10mph, little children on bikes, Mums pushing prams, dog walkers etc.
20mph would be dangerous and get ebikes banned..

Would one speeding biker lead to the ban of bikes?
This whole arbitrary unenforceable speed limit is madness. I see the rationale behind it, but laws without anyone enforcing them are worse than meaningless, these laws actually lead to people disregarding other rules as well.

 

[flecc]

Remember, the goal should primarily be to rid ourselves of unecessary cars on the road. We still have far too few cyclists on the road and need to do whatever we can to get more out there.

A somewhat selfish view surely? Who are you to say anyone's car is unnecessary? Like many others I used to drive a car into London simply because I had to use it during the day as well as part of my job. Many motorists think bicycles are unsuited to our roads and shouldn't be on them, which is just as selfish.

Pedelecs just don't meet the needs of distance commuters.

But that's not a reason to make them faster, it's at least equally a reason for someone to choose a more suitable form of transport.

I have commuted from East Croydon, indeed the whole shemozzle, bus, tram, train and underground each journey, so I know how rough that can be.
.

 

[mike killay]

If you want to go faster than 15mph, then get a moped.
Simple.
Ebikes are classified as bikes because of the 15 mph cut off.
You have no chance at all persuading the authorities to up the speed limit for ebikes.
They all drive cars and have little knowledge of bikes let alone ebikes.
BUT, you can be very sure that politicians like to ban or tax things.

 

[SRS]

If you want to go faster than 15mph, then get a moped.
Simple.

Why not get a moped full stop. Whats the point of a pedelec? Just a waste of copped windings.

Come on Mike, have a bit of forward vision. With your thinking we'll be burning the oil till the lights go out.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I have been running the numbers on my bike and future upgrade(s).

Changing the chainset big cog from 42 to 48 will earn me 5 kph downhill slightly less on the flat where my cadence goes down a little. But that change will seriously modify my average speed over my 14 km commute. Moving everything to a 28"/700C bike is a gain of at least 10 kph downhill at the same cadence. No dongle, just better use of the bicycle part of the pedelec. Changing the tires for 2.0" gains another .5 kph (and perhaps more comfort and security in road handling).

If I also swap out the controller for an 18 Amp one (yes my Samsung battery can handle it it is rated at 2C constant and 3C peak) without modifying max speed I should be closer to cut out a lot of the way up the hill on the way to Hendaye. I am between 19 and 24 kph at the moment.

Current average is 26.7 kph on that route. Better gearing should up it to just under 30 kph. More Amps should push it over that mark while retaining a bike that is within the spirit of the law i.e. 25 kph cutout plus or minus 10 %. I think that I have attained the maximum level of rider fitness so not much to gain there...

 

[Golyo]

I live in Hungary, and I visited the countryside this last weekend, my late grandfather's village. Lots and lots of people use electric scooters without any licence and papers, and probably most of them doesn't even know that they are doing something wrong. If it is so popular in a pretty poor village now, then I cannot imagine what is going to happen in few year's time with the help of cheap Li ion cells.

 

[John_S]

I've set the motor cut-out limit on my bike at 27kph (16.8mph). As I understand it, this is not illegal because 10% of leeway is permitted above 25kph (15.5mph). My guess is that a 28kph cutoff would be technically illegal though, as it is just over the leeway threshold of 27.5kph.

 

[soundwave]

police not interested in uk just make sure it has peddles

 

[SpezElec]

sure,,not 100% I still watch for them when I am on the roads

police not interested in uk just make sure it has peddles

 

[mike killay]

Why not get a moped full stop. Whats the point of a pedelec? Just a waste of copped windings.

Come on Mike, have a bit of forward vision. With your thinking we'll be burning the oil till the lights go out.

I am thinking forward, unlike you. The possibility of ebikes getting into hot water because of their exceeding 25kph is very real.
You can get or build an electric moped if you do not wish to burn oil.
(But give some thought to where some of the electricity might be coming from)

 

[chr4]

Pedelecs just don't meet the needs of distance commuters.[/QUOTE]

I guess someone needs to start a petition to allow s pedelec in UK. I would be happy to sign.

 

[SRS]

I am thinking forward, unlike you. The possibility of ebikes getting into hot water because of their exceeding 25kph is very real.
You can get or build an electric moped if you do not wish to burn oil.
(But give some thought to where some of the electricity might be coming from)

One has to ask why so many riders wish to have a higher cut off.
Could it be that the current level is somehow inadaquate.

Lets have a discussion and have it raised to meet users needs and not dismiss out of hand.
If we need hot water then lets have some.

As for the origin of any electricity, both my ebikes are almost exclusively powered from solar and wind as is my home.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Well I get the picture now, thanks to all who responded as to why this is the case. But I do tend to sense an "I'm alright Jack" sort of attitude amongst some people.
Look, I'm not trying to get anyone's back up, but I think the point has been made that we do live in a very different cycling culture and infrastructure to Europe.
I live and commute in greater London, which is heavily congested and polluted. Trains are incredibly expensive and awful. I'm sorry, but for those with dreamy attitudes towards public transport should try taking my train from East Croydon which is late absolutely every single day............or cancelled. Keeps swapping platforms. It's just a case of how late it will be. Buses are a joke. I tried it one day from East Croydon, and it took 1.5hrs to travel 8 miles. Luckily I don't then have to go on to face the Tube Strikes in central London. I'm not just saying this for my benefit, there are thousands like me who have no good options. As I've said before, mopeds are dirty noisy beasts, which only gain quickness by filtering traffic which is dangerous, and start up costs are large (£1400 - lessons, tax, insruance, riding gear) before you've even bought a bike. Electric mopeds are some way off from being affordable.

For all the hype and attention the cyclelane superhighways in London are generating, I still spend 95% of my time not in a cycle lane whenever I do commute by bike. So all these suggestions that it would be dangerous to see 20mph bicycles in bicycle lanes are null and void. Yes it would be dangerous, but A) there are so few cycle lanes for it to even happen en masse and B) I've seen bat out of hell cyclists on London Streets and they tend to ride in the road alongside the existing cycle superhighways because there are so many slower cyclists in them.
I'd also like to point out that I was cycling around Copenhagen a few months ago, and whilst the majority were riding a fairly slow pace, there were plenty racing cyclists on the commute.
Remember, the goal should primarily be to rid ourselves of unecessary cars on the road. We still have far too few cyclists on the road and need to do whatever we can to get more out there. Pedelecs just don't meet the needs of distance commuters.

I'd firstly move from Croydon! (Born and breed so I am allowed to 'diss' the place) In all seriousness, try one for a few days, you'll get it. There is 10% tolorence allowed so 15.5mph isnt a strict cut off, you'll get to about 16.8ish which is nearer your 20mph magic mark. And thats the point for you its 20mph, for others it'll be 25mph or even more, thats really motorbike territory.

 

[anotherkiwi]

...you its 20mph, for others it'll be 25mph or even more, thats really motorbike territory.

Ahem... s-pedelec territory the average speed of any motorbike is WOT...

I think that since I have a pedelec my around town speed may actually be slower than before but I have more load to carry or am not dressed for cycling or... I am doing stuff I didn't use to do and going farther.

For my open road commute the speed gain is 100% because after trying once or twice I gave up riding a bike up those hills. My problem is this is the open road and I would like to up the average speed without going into hairy skin of my teeth over the top speed. I have no problem with 60 kph on a bicycle, especially one with hydraulic brakes and beefy tyres. I have the experience of racing bike tyres and no real brakes at 60 kph back in the day and that was scary thinking back now.

For me the delicate balance to find is the one between range and higher average speed, you can't have both. For the moment I am working on improving it within the spirit of the law.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Its also worth noting, that even with the 15.5mph cut off, on a relatively straight commute... I'm faster on a legal eBike than I am on my road racing bike.

Agreed, my Mum has been renting an e-bike so I've been going out with her on my road bike which is good for both of us as she enjoys it and I get a much better work out than I expected. 15mph doesn't sound that fast but the fact it can mostly do that into headwinds, up hills etc. and it's faster than it sounds, I set several personal bests trying to keep up with the e-bike.

I think the 15mph is sensible bearing in mind there's no training required unlike a moped which isn't that fast but needs a CBT minimum to ride it on the road along with a variety of other requirements. Yes, a decent road cyclist can go faster particularly if it's all flat but they're likely a decent experienced cyclist whereas anyone could hop on an e-bike and as it stands they're still going to be amongst the faster cyclists on the road.

John

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Interestingly in Holland where the 45k/h speed pedelec law is very relaxed, Riese and Muller sell 4 times as many speed pedelecs as the 25 kph versions of the same bikes. I agree there is no place for a 30mph bike on cycle paths, but they are amazing to ride!

Edit... This should be balance by saying in Germany RM sell ten standard pedelecs to one speed version, but the rules are much tighter.

 

[tillson]

As for the origin of any electricity, both my ebikes are almost exclusively powered from solar and wind as is my home.

What happens on a cloudy day and there is no breeze to turn the electricity windmills?

 

[PestoftheWest]

Its also worth noting, that even with the 15.5mph cut off, on a relatively straight commute... I'm faster on a legal eBike than I am on my road racing bike.

There is a thread here, that you might not have seen Job100.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-much-faster-by-ebike.16505/page-2

Summary, was... the 15.5mph cut off is enough to make a ride faster, or easier for even a fit cyclist in a hilly area. If the ride had more stopping and starting the difference would be even greater, because its all the time spent below the cut off, and on the hills where you save the time and effort.

In essence it made me realise the cut off is adequate for on and off road.

ht

Hi

I just noticed you are something to do with KTM. I just visited the KTM website before coming here and was impressed with the KTM Macina Freeze bike - BUT....and it's a big but...there's bugger all information on the website about it. It doesn't tell you anything about the frame, components, motor... hardly anything at all.

If you are something to do with KTM you might want to consider providing more information on your products on the webpage! I mean, the bike looks great but I ended up clicking away from the page because it told me very little about it.

 

[EddiePJ]

Sherman, a forum member has one, and I'm sure that he would be more than happy to answer questions that you might have. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-many-people-are-using-there-e-bike-off-road.15780/page-52#post-277752