Which Kit?

[John L]

Despite the best efforts of the guys at Wooshs we couldn't find a suitable 700c motor. So the kit is on the way back. I have to say that I'm very happy with the way Woosh handled the situation.

Anyway that means I'm searching once again for the right combination of battery, motor and controller. Had I taken the advice of D8veh and Nealh I'd probably be set up now! But I suppose better late than never.

So I need some more advice please.

1. My intention is to order a q128c (36v, RPM201) motor from BMSBattery. I still haven’t decided to go for the bare motor or a made up wheel. My current wheel has 32 spokes. The q128c motor has 36 spoke holes so if I order the bare motor I’ll have to buy a new rim and get it spoked. That might not save very much over ordering the built wheel. I see BMSB have a q100c motor with 32 spoke holes. I’m not sure what the difference in performance is between Q100c and the Q128c tho.
   
   
2. The BMSB battery pack with built in controller looks very neat. I’m debating whether I should go for the 48v11.6ah (https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/680-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html) with built in controller or a 36v 14.5ah pack (https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/678-36v145ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html). I’d like to be able to work up towards a 50 – 60 mile range – pedalling in normal conditions (if there is such a thing!). If the 48v battery pack would get me that range it would probably be the best buy for me.
   
   
3. It was suggested at one stage that I might buy a battery from eclipsebikes and a controller from PSPPower. I think I read elsewhere that eclipsebikes are based in Hong Kong. Is this the case? If so I’m not sure if the Irish authorities would differentiate between China and Hong Kong in terms of VAT and Duty. I'd also need further advice on which KT controller from PSPPower would be most suitable.

Any help would be very much appreciated.


John

 

[Deleted member 4366]

1. The Q128 is twice the size and twice the weight of the Q100. You don't need to be a genius to figure out what the performance difference is.

2. The 36v battery has 50 cells in it and the 48v one has 52 cells, so if tou had each battery on two otherwise identical bikes and you rode them side by side, the 48v one would go 4% further.

3. Eclipse are in UK. Which controller to get depends on which motor you get and how much power you want.

 

[John L]

1. The Q128 is twice the size and twice the weight of the Q100. You don't need to be a genius to figure out what the performance difference is.

2. The 36v battery has 50 cells in it and the 48v one has 52 cells, so if tou had each battery on two otherwise identical bikes and you rode them side by side, the 48v one would go 4% further.

3. Eclipse are in UK. Which controller to get depends on which motor you get and how much power you want.

Thanks for that. Its a q128c so I guess it is obvious when you put it that way. So Q128c RPM 201 36V 700c rim.

In relation to battery choice that's exactly what I was wondering. So now that I know for certain that eclipse is in the UK and that a 48v11.5ah is better I'm looking at http://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=109 (Hailong 48V 12Ah Lithium 30Q Samsung Cells).

In relation to a controller from PSPPower I'm looking at http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2016-3F-33C0.50CGS - 36V/48V 500W 6Mosfets 20A Brushless DC Sine Wave Controller with a KT-LCD3, with a Speed sensor and a dual Dual Hall Sensor (as I think that's for left side mounting).

Will all that work together? Am I missing anything else obvious?

John

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That all looks good. Just the torque arm then.

 

[John L]

That all looks good. Just the torque arm then.

Yes I forgot the torque arm. A pair of M12 torque arms from BMSB should do.

The battery I picked is, I just noticed, out of stock but an updated version is available for a £10 more http://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=146

I did a bit more research on duty rates and I think duty on a motor less than 750w is 2.7% or on ebike parts (including lithium batteries) is 4.7%. I way over estimated duty in my original calculations so I'll review the BMSB for the entire kit.

 

[John L]

Ok so now that I’ve a better idea of what I need and the applicable VAT and duty rates, I have 2 options (as was mentioned much earlier in this thread)

Option 1

Buy all from BMSBattery - the Q128c motor wheel (RPM201, 36v, 700c rim) + 48v11.6ah battery with built in KT controller + m12 torque arm + dual hall sensor.

Option 2

Buy the Q128c motor wheel (RPM201, 36v, 700c rim) + M12 torque arm from BMSB

Buy the Controller with a KT-LCD3 and a dual Dual Hall Sensor from PSPPower.

Buy the 48v12ah 30Q Battery from Eclipsebikes.


Cost wise there is not much in it.

So I suppose it comes down to which is the best battery.

The BMSB battery has the advantage of a built in controller but are the panasonic NCR18650PF cells as good as the Samsung INR18650 30Q? The Eclipse battery dimensions are slightly smaller. I couldn’t find out what weight the BMSB battery is to compare it to the Eclipse.

I suppose I’m leaning towards the Eclipse battery but I’m open to other views.

 

[anotherkiwi]

All the cells are on this page:
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size.html

PF is smaller in capacity and in Amps than the 30Q but they are both good quality cells.

 

[John L]

Thanks anotherkiwi. As u say they're both good cells but the 30q cells might suit me best.



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[John L]

Finally ordered the q128c motor wheel, torque arms and sine wave controller from bmsb. The dolphin battery is on the way from eclipsebikes. Looking forward now to getting the kit fitted. Thanks for all the help

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[Deleted member 4366]

You'll love it. You can't buy an an e-bike as good.
You did get the 36v motor and 48v battery?

 

[John L]

Yep 201 rpm 36v with a 700c rim. 48v 12 amp 30q battery

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[Forge Custom]

I have the Q128c on my main bike now at 48v. It's really good. You can get a 48v battery from BMSBattery with an included 30A controller and all the other stuff as a plug and pkay kit with waterproof connectors. It makes a very neat simple installation, to get ebike nirvana.

Hi all

I started a thread last year about converting my Marin Pine Mountain 27.5+ MTB but encountered a load of problems - the main one being the 27.5+ rim was 32h and all hubs were 36h. Soooo - after converting my beach cruiser with a Cyclotricity kit and loving the experience, Project Pine Mountain is back on!

My first thought is just to ditch the 27.5+ and go for some new 27.5 rims and tyres. So would the 'nirvana' of the Q128c and the various kit mentioned here be a suitable option? And could I run a thumb throttle with it as well as PA?

My only doubt is the fork and rear stays. This is the bike

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1072/1178/products/Marin_Pine_Mountain_2017_Tech.jpg?v=1474708678

Would a Q128c be suitable? There are loads of mounting points on the frame for the battery. I got my beach cruiser battery from Jimmy at BGA (what a gent btw) but would be happy to get from BMSB.

Any advice, kit list would be much appreciated. I'm not the most tecchy out there. I know what I want the end result to be - just not quite how to get there.

Many thanks

Matt

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It depends on what you want to use the bike for. It doesn't look like a ride to work bike.

What length rear axle does it have?

 

[Forge Custom]

It depends on what you want to use the bike for. It doesn't look like a ride to work bike.

Indeed it isn't! Although changing it to narrower wheels will make it a bit more road friendly. But predominantly, just for taking on some fairly moderate trails, a few steepish Dorset hills around the Purbecks - but nothing too savage.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The rougher and the steeper the trails, the more the balance swings in favour of a crank-drive. Without knowing where you're going to ride, I can't say what's best.

As you already have a Cyclotricity hub-motor kit, why not try a crank-drive, then you can add to the debate about which is best from a point of knowledge instead of theory.

 

[Forge Custom]

It depends on what you want to use the bike for. It doesn't look like a ride to work bike.

What length rear axle does it have?

Sorry - rear drop puts are 141mm x 9mm by the looks of it. Presumably that rules some hubs out?

 

[Forge Custom]

The rougher and the steeper the trails, the more the balance swings in favour of a crank-drive. Without knowing where you're going to ride, I can't say what's best.

As you already have a Cyclotricity hub-motor kit, why not try a crank-drive, then you can add to the debate about which is best from a point of knowledge instead of theory.

Hi again

Yes - the Cyclotricity 1000w kit has been faultless. But then it's hauling a fairly (very) heavy beach cruiser in a straight line on the flat for the main part. No hills. The Pine Mountain is obviously a lot lighter but it wouldn't be heading up anything too long and steep - i.e. Lake District, Cairngorms, Alps etc. It's more about re-creating the thrill of dialling in some power and freewheeling. Perhaps a very 'light' version of something like the Stealth Bomber. In essence - a fun machine as opposed to a daily workhorse. Hopefully that doesn't sound too crass!

 

[Forge Custom]

I hasten to add I still want to pedal it. I don't want a motorbike. Just the facility to do both. And legally.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Sorry - rear drop puts are 141mm x 9mm by the looks of it. Presumably that rules some hubs out?

On the contrary, it rules some in that would otherwise be out.

Let's assume you want to keep your nice gears, then we can limit your choice to a cassette rear hub-motor or a crank-drive. Cassette motors, going up in power and weight are Q100C, MXUS XF08C, Q128C, Bafang SWX02C, Bafang CST. There's one or two others like Ezee, Xofo and the bigger MXUS, plus various DD ones, but I'd stick with one of the common ones.

Only you can decide which one you want. All those motors allow you to ride without power. For a heavier person, I'd recommend 48v and the Q128 with a sine wave controller. if you want light, then the Q100. I you want to buy from the UK, your choice will be very limited, though that might swing you towards a crank-motor. There's no answer to any of these things. They all work - just slightly differently. You choose and pay, then live with the consequences of your decision.

 

[Forge Custom]

On the contrary, it rules some in that would otherwise be out.

Let's assume you want to keep your nice gears, then we can limit your choice to a cassette rear hub-motor or a crank-drive. Cassette motors, going up in power and weight are Q100C, MXUS XF08C, Q128C, Bafang SWX02C, Bafang CST. There's one or two others like Ezee, Xofo and the bigger MXUS, plus various DD ones, but I'd stick with one of the common ones.

Only you can decide which one you want. All those motors allow you to ride without power. For a heavier person, I'd recommend 48v and the Q128 with a sine wave controller. if you want light, then the Q100. I you want to buy from the UK, your choice will be very limited, though that might swing you towards a crank-motor. There's no answer to any of these things. They all work - just slightly differently. You choose and pay, then live with the consequences of your decision.

Thanks d8veh - much appreciated. The kit you recommend seems to be a great set up looking at other threads. Happy to buy from overseas so that would be fine.

If I DIDN'T want to keep the gears and have in effect a single speed (I'm still not clear how gear changes actually work in combination with a motor - my beach cruiser just has a single freewheel) - what would be a good solution then?