Very worried

[Spinalot]

I have had my new Kalkhoff for just over a week now and the alfine 8 speed hub has started making grinding noises. It seems to happen more in the higher gears one through four and is intermittent in nature but in first through third it is constant. I say grinding perhaps a better description would be grating. I have only ridden on the roads and only once in the rain. I went off road once on the Trans Pennine trail which is a "hard pack" type of surface with a few muddy spots and the odd puddle you have no choice but to ride through. These were only tyre thickness deep certainly not axle deep!
I can feel the grating though the peddles and whole bike. I have adjusted the cable many times making sure to get it into the two marks lined up position. I have on purpose taken it out of alignment and wind it back in again. To no avail.
Can anyone shed light on what is happening. I read on some forums that some users say they take time to bed in but this grating/grinding seems to be getting worse and it certainly was not there on the first few rides out. It was smooth and silent. I cannot believe a part so well made could fail so fast. The only thing I can think is that when I first got it, some may remember my earlier post, about the gears slipping due to the marks not being lined up, is that something broke inside and is now mashing up the workings
I shall be emailing 50Cycles and see what they say but I was hoping to get some idea of the problem or I am worrying over nothing.

 

[103Alex1]

How's the chain tension, Spinalot ?

 

[Artstu]

How's the chain tension, Spinalot ?

Yes check the noise isn't coming from the chain or sprockets. I run a Nexus 8 with no issues. They're well sealed to water ingress.

 

[Spinalot]

I have checked this. As I saw on a troubleshooting guide I found that that can sometimes be an issue. I can move the chain about 1/2 an inch up and down which according to what I have read is the correct tension

 

[Spinalot]

Whilst talking about chain tension. How is it best to adjust this? It is an absolute ******, as when I tighten the nuts the wheel moves. (very slight amount is need to move the chain either correct tension or too slack) The manual seems to suggest that I disconnect the gear cable to do it, but this is not a simple as the manual says either. "simply slip the outer cover from the holder" is a joke at best!
I have just kept undoing and doing back up till I kind of "got lucky". :-(

 

[103Alex1]

Whilst talking about chain tension. How is it best to adjust this? It is an absolute ******, as when I tighten the nuts the wheel moves. (very slight amount is need to move the chain either correct tension or too slack) The manual seems to suggest that I disconnect the gear cable to do it, but this is not a simple as the manual says either. "simply slip the outer cover from the holder" is a joke at best!
I have just kept undoing and doing back up till I kind of "got lucky". :-(

The gear cable can be tight to reseat in the hub - you need to have it aligned right to go back into its slot. See your other thread about how to reseat the wheel.

Just watch your washers if you don't tighten axle nuts enough - if you ride with them like that they will wear and wheel will keep slipping until you replace them. 50 Cycles sent me replacements for free after I had this following adjusting the rear wheel over 15 times in the early days not being able to work out how to align it right. There is a knack to it - and it's extremely finely tuned. I posted at length about this when I first had similar challenges but no-one else seemed to have experience of working on the rear wheel who could help.

When you've reseated the wheel you need to check your brakes line up with the rim too - and adjust if needed. There's loads of play in them (if they're the Magura ones) so easy to reset. Rotate the knobs on the brake lever to move the pads in and out from the wheel rim until they are how you want them... and make sure neither pad touches the rim (!) ... I rode off with them touching once when faffing about and for some reason the bike didn't seem quite as perky as it had been before. Wonder why !!! Thankfully caught it very quickly.

It was only when I bought the Trek I realized how sophisticated and finely tuned the Agattu really is

 

[Spinalot]

Thanks for trying to help me 103Alex1.
How do you "hold" the tension with only two hands when pulling the wheel back in the dropouts and still tighten the nuts?
How do you get the wheel out of the drop outs without deflating the tyre? It bumps into the mudguard well before it clears the dropout. It is not possible to get the wheel free.
See my other thread regarding the magura brakes issue I have.

 

[50 Hertz]

As Alex has stated, it's a bit of a black art getting the back wheel correctly positioned and secured. It's really a 4 dimensional puzzle (fore and aft, longitudinal alignment, correct relative to the brakes, correct chain tension). There is no alternative to patience and gaining experience. It may take you a while to initially get it right, but eventually, you will develop your own technique and it won't seem quite as daunting.

I find it best to leave the gear cable off until the wheel is back in and correctly positioned, then hook up the cable. Once you have initially adjusted it correctly, wheel position will have no further influence.

Regarding the grinding noise. Have you tried wiping the chain with a clean cloth to remove any lose dirt and doing the same to the sprockets. Then apply a thin film of grease to the chain, working it in between the links with you figures. This cures many transmission problems.

 

[Artstu]

One trick is tightening the wheel out of line, nipping up just the furthest back nut up first, then twisting the wheel inline and then doing the other nut up.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Whilst talking about chain tension. How is it best to adjust this? It is an absolute ******, as when I tighten the nuts the wheel moves. (very slight amount is need to move the chain either correct tension or too slack) The manual seems to suggest that I disconnect the gear cable to do it, but this is not a simple as the manual says either. "simply slip the outer cover from the holder" is a joke at best!
I have just kept undoing and doing back up till I kind of "got lucky". :-(

Alex's bike is the same. Every time you tighten the axle nuts, the chain goes loose again.

If it were my bike, I'd make one of these, so that you can get the chain tension exact, and I'm surprised that Kalkhoff didn't provide one. You need some steel strip about 2.5mm thick; bend the end at right-angles; drill and tap a 6mm thread in it; drill a hole in the side just bigger than the axle; screw a M6 bolt/screw into the end and fit it behind the axle nut. You will then be able to jack the axle back to get the tension exact like on a motorbike.

 

[Spinalot]

I tried this and could not get it to work.
I is so frustrating because If I pull back with both index fingers on the cap nuts I get the tension just right, as soon as I let go to pick up the spanner to tighten the nuts it is too slack. I have tried to think of a Heath Robinson way of holding the tension and doing the cap nuts. I thought about getting a peice of string and tie each end to both cap nuts and put the back of my knee in the loop and step back to hold the tension. Would this work?
I cannot believe that this is supposed to be this hard though. :-(

 

[Spinalot]

Alex's bike is the same. Every time you tighten the axle nuts, the chain goes loose again.

So I am not going "nuts" then? It truly should not be this hard in 2013 on a bike that costs £1800. I know some think this is not alot to spend on a bike but it is the most I have ever spent! Also I bought the Kalkhoff on the understanding it was so full of awesome!
The idea you suggest is beyond my skill. Do you know of a premade thing I could buy?

So should I simply add some links to the chain to get some more clearance for the mudguard?

How do I solve the getting the wheel out without deflating the tyre problem?

 

[GORDONAL]

Forgive me but a trip to 50 cycles with the said bicycle is called for ........ as you rightly say £1800 for something substandard is totally u/s.

Alan

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't think taking links out of the chain will help because the chain goes slacker as you slide it out the drop-outs. The only solution would be to add some spacers to the mudguard or grind a bit off corner of the drop-outs so that the wheel drops out sooner

 

[Spinalot]

Forgive me but a trip to 50 cycles with the said bicycle is called for ........ as you rightly say £1800 for something substandard is totally u/s.

Alan

I agree, it is a long way to go though and it is annoying that I should have to pay for such a thing.

 

[Spinalot]

I don't think taking links out of the chain will help because the chain goes slacker as you slide it out the drop-outs. The only solution would be to add some spacers to the mudguard or grind a bit off corner of the drop-outs so that the wheel drops out sooner

Hmmm, an ugly solution.
Thank you for trying to help me though D8veh, I appreciate it.
It was addding a link so I could get the wheel furtherback to make the gap between the wheel and mudguard larger clearance. Getting the wheel out is a whole seperate thing.
I just watched the youtube video by 50cycles on the old model Agatu for wheel removal and it looks hilariously simple but mine is not so :-(

 

[Artstu]

This is where those little tensioners come in handy. Not that the two bikes I maintain with 8-speed hubs have them.

[image] http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1389/1332526323_a2dd503108_z.jpg?zz=1[/image]

 

[Kudoscycles]

Spinalot,this is where a local dealer comes in useful but we all appreciate that is not always possible. All of the issues you have are not really related to an electric bike any good local bike shop should be able to help.
We have certain tasks at Kudos that do repeat themselves and the first time even my good guys scratched their heads a bit,but with experience comes ease.
You are on the first rung of an experience ladder and need a bit of guidance.
I strongly suggest you,with 50 cycles agreement,go into a good bike shop and let him sort out the problem but ask to watch what he does. One of my guys at work is a very experienced cyclist but for some jobs he turns to a local lbs because some tasks you just have to have the knack.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

I tried this and could not get it to work.
I is so frustrating because If I pull back with both index fingers on the cap nuts I get the tension just right, as soon as I let go to pick up the spanner to tighten the nuts it is too slack. I have tried to think of a Heath Robinson way of holding the tension and doing the cap nuts. I thought about getting a peice of string and tie each end to both cap nuts and put the back of my knee in the loop and step back to hold the tension. Would this work?
I cannot believe that this is supposed to be this hard though. :-(

I would do this:
Pump up the tyre then sit on the rear rack. Your weight wil keep the chain under tension.
Use your left hand to center the wheel, use the other hand to tighten up the nuts.

 

[Old_Dave]

If you cant either push the wheel back with one hand, or pull it back with one hand...

Then maybe 2 ring spanners (one either side, lol) will help

But I do recommend one hand for tension (fore or aft) other for spanner, once you get the knack you'll wonder why it was ever a problem